WARNING: WALL OF TEXT IMMINENT

Here's the thing: I love, love, LOVE the first Baldur's Gate. Despite its cliched plot, silly characters, and Ren Faire dialogue, I've beaten it three times (one of which was the Enhanced Edition). Every time, I planned to import the main character from my BG1 playthrough into BG2 and bring them all the way through Throne of Bhaal.

And I failed: three times.

I have so many issues with the game: the lack of freedom (compared to the first game, I'm practically on rails), Jaheira getting over Khalid's death WAY too quickly, the fact that the first half of the game is the fault of one NPC's stupidity i.e. Imoen's spell casting, which would have NEVER happened if she remained under my control (I hate cutscenes), and that the bevy of side quests ("My name is Jan/Anomen/Nalia/etc. please drop everything and help me with this lengthy side quest") remove any immediacy of rescuing her. I got so bored I looked at a walkthrough ("How far before I reach the ending...WHAAAATT?!?!"). And there's way too much phat loot just lying around (one of my many issues with the Forgotten Realms setting) I could go on and on... BUT, I need to complete the saga--for honor, for closure, for the hope that I was all wrong about BG2 and it really isn't as bad as I think it is.

Now, for my FOURTH attempt, I plan to forget the first game, and make a NEW character for the second game. But this time, I'm playing a wizard. Not just any wizard: an EVIL wizard; a necromancer. Yes, I am going to try to recruit evil NPCs only, choose only the rudest dialogue lines, and inform Imoen that she can't come with us because I hate her and my beef is with the man who imprisoned and tortured me.

My biggest problem is that I'm a roleplayer. I play my character to the best of HIS abilities: no min/maxing here. If I'm in a dungeon, I almost never rest. I never save scum: character dies? Keep moving. Failed to copy spell scroll? Too bad. Pre-buffing? Fuhgettaboutit. I only save when I enter a new area (e.g. after a loading screen) and I only load from a save when I get a game over screen. For this reason, I think Baldur's Gate 2 is FAR more unforgiving/challenging/cheap than BG1, though in most forums people seem to think the opposite.

What's more: I suck at tactics. I hate min/maxing in games, but (especially in Infinity Engine games), I've always felt like I'm being punished for not doing so. On the rare occasion I try to break my roleplayer's code, fights rarely turn out differently: buffed/minmaxed or not, every encounter ends with at least one character in the red. I once made a TANKY Dwarven fighter in Icewind Dale (Lonesome Road and everything), and his wealth of health merely prolonged his inevitable yelp of "I be needin' a healerrrr!"

So I ask you, hardcore BG2 players of Gog: will you lend me your wisdom (I rolled pretty low)? Show me these "tactics" you speak of: is there a trick to completing most encounters unscathed (without cheese like spamming Death Cloud through fog of war)? Or is it just the nature of the beast? Can anyone link me to a video of a "pro" Baldur's Gate 2 player steamrolling encounters with nothing more than a CHARNAME and the BG2 NPCs?

Apologies for my lack of BG2 knowledge, this wall of text, and my abuse of parenthetical asides.

I think you misunderstand. Tactics doesn't mean you get through the battles unscathed. It merely means you use your resources to their most effective capacity. Sometimes you end up with a dead character. You get them raised and moved on. In your example if you mean you come out of the encounter with your tank at low HPs, that's not necessarily an indicator that you played it poorly.

One tactic you should try to use is to scout ahead with your thief or an invisible character. That way you know what's waiting and can plan accordingly. And that allows you to legitimately toss in some spells, summons, or exploding potions from the fog of war. Scout ahead, set up a killing field, and attack. Of course this doesn't always work, but it' a great tactic for many encounters.

Really? I saw a guy do an Icewind Dale LP, and he burned right through the first dungeon in about 20 minutes. His characters barely took any hits (if I recall correctly).. It took me over two hours to finish that thing! Then again, I was only playing with 4 PCs...

The scouting thing is an excellent idea. But my main concern is things like Dragons and Beholders. They're creatures that require very specific items/spells to defeat properly, right? I've yet to fight either, but I know the former is especially difficult. I suppose if a few characters die in the process, it's only natural, right? What I don't understand is how a game that practically demands resting after every encounter (in my opinion, there are too many encounters) can be considered the "Greatest cRPG ever."

Yeah, but when you've played through the games multiple times you know exactly what you're going to face, what weapons and spells to choose, and how to build your characters to be completely optimized (18/00 STR, 18 CON, 18 DEX for warriors, for example, or min/maxed dual classed characters, etc.). If you're not into min/maxing, you won't be interested in building a party like that.

*edit* That first dungeon in IWD - do you mean the Orc cave? That one can actually be done fairly quickly depending on your party and what tactics you use. Ranged weapons for everyone, along with spells like Sleep for the big boys and larger groups, for example, can really make things easy. Spend your money on armor, helmets, and shields for your warriors and the rest on potions of healing. Just keep the warriors at the front (and don't send them into melee until the mobs close - ranged weapons for everyone until then), chug potions to keep your health up, and concentrate on the Shamans when they appear. You can blast through that dungeon in no time, even on Insane where there are 4 ogres at the end. Sleep works wonders with those ogres (and the orcs) and that gives you plenty of time to take them out one by one. Yeah, it's something that people tend to gloss over. The games are extremely combat heavy (even the ones that are noted as great RPGs such as the BG series). You have to rest fairly often to replenish spells, although there are a lot of miscellaneous magic items, scrolls, wands, potions, and rods that can keep you going for quite a long time as well.

As for Dragons and Beholders, yeah they can be vicious. I actually find the beholders are worse. They toss so many damned different spells at you that you're going to take a dirt nap if you don't have the right gear.

Dragons can be very tough as well, but you can generally choose when you're going to fight them and have your party prepared beforehand. When you've got 6 characters kitted out, buffed, and hasted, you can take a dragon down fairly quickly without taking too much damage. Depends what level your party is at though. Keep in mind as well that some dragons don't have to be fought at all in BG2.

No, I meant the first crypt dungeon place: Black Wolf Temple. The Orc Cave never gave me too much trouble, it's every place after that.

There's a thread on the RPGCodex about why "Baldur's Gate sucks." Most of the complaints leveled at BG2 in particular are similar to mine, though one poster mentioned how there's only one Breach scroll in the first 4 chapters, and if you fail to copy it, you're screwed because it's one of the most important spells in the entire game. DSimpson's walkthrough demands that you have at least one person who can cast disabling spells like Breach and one person who can cast Restoration, but I only tend to take characters with me that I like. I don't care if Viconia is the best cleric in the game, and Aerie gets on my nerves, so I've never taken either of them. The farthest I've ever gotten in BG2 yet is when Bhodi traps you in the maze and you're reunited with Imoen. Would you say there's ever a point in the game where it becomes impossible to progress if you don't have these tools (Breach, for instance)?

Odd that you should say that, as I've been getting through most of the dungeons without having to rest, at least more than once or twice in the longer ones. I guess I tend to be more frugal with spells, and more willing to reload, but still. It certainly doesn't demand resting after each encounter. Who do you have in your party, and how are they arranged?

This annoyed me as well. All of a sudden you're just flooded with all kinds of sidequests, oh and the horror of browsing the damned quest log to find details on them all. There's just a bit too much at once.

Agree also on the exploration point - I liked that in BG.

Absolutely. I am one of those weird people who refuse to have my party rest more than roughly 1 in-game day, including traveling time -- if traveling takes 36 hours, I rest. It's not necessary, and I view fight > rest > fight > rest > fight > rest as little more than cheese.

Heh. Aboveground, my characters tend to get fatigued before I otherwise need to rest, since the battles are generally easier. I rest when my healing spells run out when in dungeons (or my arcane spells, but that's rare as I'm far too stringent in using them). It sounds like the OP has the opposite problem: you don't have to cast your best spells, or even any spells, in every encounter: powerful summons can be kept for before (or on encountering) a hard boss, and often a lower level spell can achieve an effect equally well. For instance, the first level spell magic missile is great for getting rid of mirror images, as it's fast to cast and fires lots of missiles at the target, which will generally destroy most/all of the mirrors. Not bad for a first level spell, and it also has lots of other applications. Would you mind explaining why you need to rest? That is, which spells you're running out of?

It's entirely possible you're simply devoting too many of your healer's spells to nonheals, meaning you run out more quickly. If you only have one healer, and that healer is a multiclassed character (like Aerie or especially Jaheira) then you're also going to have trouble, as they simply won't have enough spells. In that circumstance, the best solution would probably be to rearrange your party to pick up someone else who can heal: two multiclass healers, like the ones I mentioned, will probably do at a pinch, or you can drop a party member (perhaps the multicalss healer) for a full healer like Anomen or Viconia. Precisely what you choose to do and who you choose to drop will depend on your character and party, and is up to you.

If you're running out of arcane spells, then you're probably just being a bit trigger happy with them. Remember that your casters are capable of using ranged weapons as well! Against most encounters, there's no real need to cast a spell, and certainly nothing beyond 3rd level. Several creatures later in the game have magic resistance, making direct spells virtually useless against them anyway: save your casters for summons/buffs.

It's also possible you're simply not as high level as the game's expecting, which might particularly be an issue if you've rushed through the game to try to get it over with. If you haven't been doing many side quests, and have focussed just on the main questline, then you will have trouble.

Fatigue in BG affects only morale, so it's not really a reason (other than role playing if you're not OTT with Haste, or irritation at the constant moans, which can be turned off) to keep resting. It's one of the reasons I rarely use Haste if I can help it. I'd rather have one or two characters sporting Improved Haste (which doesn't cause fatigue), and grab the Boots of Speed, than have the whole party constantly getting grumpy. If my party rested 2 hours ago and then get fatigued, they have to carry on regardless, until (what I deem) a proper rest place and time. I know power players will ridicule this, but that's the way I play.

Fair enough, though I believe I read in several places that fatigue affects certain other things as well as morale. Not all of the things from the pen and paper version by any means, but I believe it modifies your melee damage in a minor way behind the scenes, for instance. I don't have any first hand evidence of that, but it might be worth investigating.

Personally, my characters getting tired is a perfectly valid reason to rest for me, even if they did just rest. On the other hand, I do try to avoid having to rest in too quick succession, especially if it's only one character who needs it. That's why I'd often let someone carry on for a bit with a negative level rather than cast Lesser Restoration before I'm ready to rest anyway.

I didn't tend to prepare more than 1-2 casts of haste in my game the fatigue issue wasn't too major. That worked well for me, as my only arcane casters were Imoen and Aerie, while I had 3 characters using physical attacks. That would be a lot of improved hastes, and consequently my arcane casters would run out of high level spells a lot faster and I'd have to rest. I do see that improved haste would be the better option in a more arcane heavy party.

I am right that (improved) haste is arcane only, aren't I?

That was a typo on my part, actually. Fatigue affects the luck modifier, not morale. Sorry for that. And that's all it modifies. Here is a breakdown of the game pseudo code (credit to Ascension64):

======================
void CCreatureObject::CheckFatigue() {
if (!party member) return;
if (!my turn to check) return;

//fatigue level increments by 1 every 4 hours
//adjust for constitution bonus to fatigue
nFatigueLevel = nGameTime - nTicksLastRested / 4 hours; //4 * 5 * 60 * 15
nFatigueBonus = GetFatigueBonus(constitution);
nFatigueLevel = nFatigueLevel - nFatigueBonus >= 0 ? nFatigueLevel - nFatigueBonus : 0;

if (nFatigueLevel > m_BaseStats.fatigue) {
ApplyEffect(EFFECT_FATIGUE_MOD, nParam1 = nFatigueLevel, nParam2 = 1); //modifies the m_BaseStats.fatigue
nLuckMod = GetFatigueLuckModifier(column = 0, row = nFatigueLevel); //FATIGMOD.2DA
cdsCurrent.luck += nLuckMod;
//if a luck modifier applies, then the game tells the player this
if (nLuckMod) {
Display portrait icon(0x27); //ICON_FATIGUE
Print event message("Fatigued");
}
if (nFatigueLevel > 6) {
Play soundset(TIRED);
}
} else if {nFatigueLevel < m_BaseStats.fatigue) {
//if someone changed nFatigueLevel, or loading a game, resets
nFatigueLevel = m_BaseStats.fatigue;
nTicksLastRested = nGameTime - 4 hours * nFatigueLevel; //4 * 5 * 60 * 15
if (nFatigueLevel > 6) {
Play soundset(TIRED);
}
}

return;
}
======================= Yes, it's an arcane only spell.

D'oh! I forgot about Anomen, but he's kind of bore isn't he?

And I've never heard anyone say that about Aerie or Jaheira; yes, I've always given Jaheira a mix of healing/other spells. I read somewhere that Insect Swarm was particularly powerful, so I've had her keep one in reserve, among other offensive options. Or with Viconia, I'd give her Restoration and buff spells instead of a full healing build. The thing with the DnD magic system is that healers never have enough slots for the healing spells you'll actually want to use (or rather, the spells that will make a noticeable difference in hit points). I mean, cure light wounds isn't strong enough to be worth casting in or even out of combat; you're better off with a potion of heal or something.

I've had casters carrying missile weapons since BG1, and it almost upsets me how powerful they [the missile weapons] are. I suppose I just have them cast spells often because it reminds me of why I bother to keep them around. I'm aware of the power of summons, but they disappear between areas if I recall correctly, which is why I've never stuck with them as a long term strategy.

As for me not being high enough level: what is this, a JRPG? I've always preferred Western RPGs because I've always felt they place far less emphasis on the need to grind xp to progress. If my problem is truly caused by not doing enough side (filler) quests, I'm pretty sure I'll never touch this game again.

You don't need to grind xp, in fact to a large extent that's impossible. The only time I did any 'grinding' was in BG1, and that was because Imoen was dual classing to a mage and I needed her thief skills back for the TotSC content and refused to pick up another thief. On the other hand, if you're attempting to blitz through the game and considering everything but the main quest 'filler', you aren't really experiencing what the game has to offer.

CLW, in bulk, can be quite useful. I'll generally have 1-2 tier 1 slots among my priests for spells like Armour of Faith (is that the right spell? The 1st level spell which gives you % damage reduction) and Remove Fear, depending on what role the priest is fulfilling (again, I wouldn't bother having Aerie memorise Armour of Faith, for instance, as she shouldn't be in a position where she'd take damage! Other than that, I have them memorise casts of CLW, and that served my admittedly healer heavy party ok on its own for much of pre ToB BG2. 5 casts of CLW heals 40 hp, after all, and if you regularly lose more than that at the stage of the game you're at then there's something else going wrong. Also, shortly after the furthest point you got to in the game, there's a ring of regeneration which also acts 'overnight', giving a full heal, or near enough, to whoever's wearing it. Useful after a character takes a lot of damage from a boss and you do have to rest, as you can save your healing spells for the other party members.

I'll say again, could you please tell us your party composition, what you use each party member for in combat, and what your spell loadouts are? We may be able to identify why you're finding it so hard.

I also assume you're playing on the normal or core rules difficulties, rather than say insane?

Alright guys, I'm a believer. After making not one, not two, but three new characters before deciding on a new main, I think I've got the hang of this. Honestly, if I put as much effort into playing these games as I did customizing my character's backstory, name, and soundset, I'd have beaten every IE game ever made five times over. Now that finals are done and I'm on winter break, I plan to take things more slowly, and not try to rush through the game, especially since my Bhaalspawn is so fun to play. I'm playing a choatic neutral halfling (pure) thief, which is the first time I've ever played a class unsuitable for the position of party leader. Interestingly enough, the game only refers to my character when absolutely necessary; Jaheira leads most conversations, and the dialogue is rewritten to reflect this. I like having her be the "voice of reason" in the party, and she's easier to roleplay, as I've always felt the dialogue options lacking if I'm trying to play a character of my own invention.

I've only just escaped Chateau Irenicus for like the tenth time, it took me so much longer with my thief for some reason (I had to rest; nobody was hitting anything in melee or ranged and we took a ton of damage almost every encounter). I've dropped the "evil party" idea, but I'm not sure what to do next. I consulted Angelfire's spoiler free guide to be a bit choosy about who I take with me in order to ensure I can have maximum party banter without being forced to take characters I don't like. I like the idea of Jaheira as party leader, I've got her wearing the ring that brings her Charisma to 18, and she has Cure X Wounds in every spell slot in every level, except for Lvl 2 (she has Slow Poisons instead). I'm thinking of taking Yoshimo, Anomen, Jaheira, Haer Dalis, and maybe Aerie, but right now I've got Jaheira, Yoshimo, and Minsc. I hate doing the D'Arnise Keep quest, and I remember rescuing Haer Dalis was a pain, so I don't know where I should go next and if my party will be strong enough to handle it.

I'm also unsure of how to spec my skills--I read a pure halfling thief will have enough points to be either a specialist or a jack-of-all-trades, so how should I disperse my points? He's in the low hundreds in all areas currently, and proficient in Bows, Darts, and Daggers. How high does my Hide skill have to be before I stop getting the "Hide in Shadows Failed" message? Also, I've never taken Yoshimo; how should I be utilizing him and his snares?

I've done a bit of stealing in the beginning to give my party members magic armor and weapons, and I lifted the Glasses of Identification off of Aran's merchant. What next?

As a side note: one of these days, I'd really like to beat the game with a Bhaalspawn wielding the Blade of Zerthimon...