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General discussionHow accessible are Star Trek 25th An./Judment Rites ?(7 posts)solved(7 posts)solved
(7 posts)solved
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Posted November 25, 2018
Hello all,

First of all, let me say that I could've posted this in both respective forums but thought this would gather more answers here as the dedicated forums seem to be a bit deserted.
I know appreciation for a game is subjective but I'd like as much opinion as possible. I also apologize for the length of this post =)

My eyes have been set on both Star Trek : 25Th Anniversary and Judgment Rites for quite some time now. Since they are both on sale with 70% off and Black Friday/Cyber Monday are coming to and end, I'll need to make a decision.

Now, I have read some GoG threads, read and watched online reviews but still ain't sure I could appreciate the games. So here we go :

1) Having only watched TOS up to DS9 and played around a hundred hours of STO, do I need to be aware of deep lore to understand/progress in the plot ? (Such as knowing specific names/locations or terms)

2) I've heard here and there that some sections in both games are nearly unbeatable in a legit way, is this true or does this concern only certains versions ? (Early print, CD, floppies, etc..) [Which is why I still haven't bought them]

3) Will I need to do a lot of tweaking in order to have them run properly ? I've read that they have some issue on modern computers.

4) As a casual when it comes to Point'N'Click and having no nostalgia from the genre, can I, as a mostly modern player, still enjoy those games or are they too clunky for a newbie ?

To further the 4th point, take note that I plan on not using an online guide and will try (as I always do) to rely solely on my skills and the game manual, so yeah, if the manual or goodies contains all the lore/clues one need to finish the game, it's a major plus.

I'm really interested in enjoying the storyline more than solving puzzles so if the gameplay is too much of a hassle (as point 2) or rely on skill sets that were in the norm back then (fail states, gimmicky sections, etc) I might've to avoid the games.

As a side note, and just for the sake of giving more informations, I've recently played and finished :

Sam&Max : Hit the road, Kathy Rain, the Blackwell Serie, Shelock Holmes : Secret of the Silver Earring, all Pendulo studio's games, Sanitarium, I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream.

That covers my spectrum of knowledge about Point'N'click. Well, thanks you all for your time and your answers if any are given =)
This question / problem has been solved by PixelBoyimage
Posted November 25, 2018
If you can beat Sam & Max Hit the Road, then you can deal with the ST adventures. Be sure to look at the manual's starcharts, so that you can warp to the right planets.

1 - For the first game, the final boss is pretty tough. Getting a 100% score on each mission boosts the performance of your ship slightly, so that will impact how nasty the endgame is.

2 - Judgment Rites has a bug or two for a particular mission, involving a giant head. I don't remember the details, but I recommend keeping a save before going into that mission.

3 - One of the missions for the first game is dependent on using your ship computer to research the alien world. Namely, how they deal with numbers. I don't think you can access the computer planetside, so keep a save before beaming down.
Posted November 25, 2018
1) Knowing Star Trek well really makes the experience much more enjoyable. You only need to know TOS, because that's what the games are based on. Some puzzles require some Star Trek knowledge: what are Spock's skills and how to utilise them, what does a phaser do, and so on. I suppose everything can be solved with trial and error.

I recall when somebody I knew was playing these, and I didn't have the games back then, he didn't know Star Trek at all, so he didn't know what to do. He asked me. He described the situation, and I came up with a "Star Trek solution" without seeing the game at all. The next day he told me that it was the correct solution to the puzzle. :-)

2) There are combat sections where you need to fly Enterprise kind of like in Wing Commander. Those are very hard sections, but they are possible to beat. I have done that many times. They are not point'n'click parts, however, so if you have never played such space battle games, you may find them very challenging. I believe there are some ways to skip at least some of them, and if all else fails, just download a saved game that is past that point.

3) GOG versions should run as is, but I can't really tell, as I have only floppy/CD-ROM versions. They don't require much tweaking either. 25th Anniversary is being implemented into ScummVM too, if that makes it easier. At the moment it's not a completed task, and IIRC, the combat sections do not work in ScummVM (which actually might make it a good choice for someone who wants to skip them). Of course, you need to download some development version of ScummVM, which may be unstable. Or wait for the completed version, which probably takes some time.

4) I think you are beyond casual already, having played what you listed. Anyway, these are very old school games. There is no hint button or anything, although discussing with crew members does actually sometimes provide hints. Also, you may die during the game, but you have some margin of error thanks to red shirt guys. There are a couple of extremely challenging puzzles, that even people who know Star Trek inside and outside, and have played tons of adventure games, may need to look up from a walkthrough. Most puzzles should be quite solvable with basic Star Trek and adventure game knowledge.

I personally would recommend these games 100%. They are among the best adventure games ever made, and among the best TV/movie based games ever. They have some flaws, but still I enjoy playing and replaying them.
Posted November 25, 2018
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Sabin_Stargem: If you can beat Sam & Max Hit the Road, then you can deal with the ST adventures.
Good to know, S&M is definitely one of my favorite PnC so far !
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Sabin_Stargem: Getting a 100% score on each mission boosts the performance of your ship slightly, so that will impact how nasty the endgame is.
That may turn out to be a problem but now aware, trial and error may solve this.

As for the advices on saves, thanks, I'll note that somewhere =)
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PixelBoy: They are not point'n'click parts, however, so if you have never played such space battle games, you may find them very challenging. I believe there are some ways to skip at least some of them, and if all else fails, just download a saved game that is past that point.
Ah yes, I think that's what I heard about that difficult part of the game since, as you mentionned further, ground combat has a margin of error. I've never played any Wing Commander game so let's hope my maiden flight won't be too discouraging !
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PixelBoy: There is no hint button or anything, although discussing with crew members does actually sometimes provide hints.
That's good to hear, I love when I don't have to rely too much on outside-games-informations !
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PixelBoy: There are a couple of extremely challenging puzzles, that even people who know Star Trek inside and outside, and have played tons of adventure games, may need to look up from a walkthrough.
I won't feel too bad if I get stuck then, there's nothing worse than failing to understand a puzzle because you can't get into the game's logic, but again they are old and adapting may be the hardest part.
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PixelBoy: I recall when somebody I knew was playing these, and I didn't have the games back then, he didn't know Star Trek at all, so he didn't know what to do. He asked me. He described the situation, and I came up with a "Star Trek solution" without seeing the game at all. The next day he told me that it was the correct solution to the puzzle. :-)
I love those kind of anecdotes, really shows how a game can let a long lasting impression on someone :p

Well thank you two for thoses answers/advices, it feels like you managed to dispel some of my fears. Except for those bugs/difficult parts, I've heard nothing but praises about those games so I hope I'll be able to enjoy them as much as I hope :)
Post edited November 25, 2018 by Deadmarye
Posted November 26, 2018
They are great games, definitely recommended, if you like TOS even a little bit. I don't think the puzzles will be a problem, imo they're easier and more logical than something like Sam and Max. The space combat sections can be hard, especially in 25th anniversary (the last fight is pretty hard, but it's doable). In Judgment rites that isn't a problem, because there's automatic targeting, and if you don't like the combat at all, you can even completely disable it.
Posted November 27, 2018
Hello all,

I quickly tried both games and yup, those space battles are though. Tried to mess around without reading the manual nor the star map and it was a nice 15 min of reloading after failing the tuto and launching myself into Klingon territory without warning multiples times :p

The nice thing is, failing was interesting and did motivate me. I read a bit, took my time and already made small progress.

So I'll read and learn more of what I'm sure are two pieces of work worth every efforts =)

Hope that future enthusiasts will find interest in investing time in those games, I'm already eager to jump in again. Thanks again all for you time.
Posted November 27, 2018
I played them after watching TOS, they were perfectly in line with everything and a lot of the logic comes by itself. As for ship battles you can avoid most of them and once you've figured it out, they become fairly easy.
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General discussionHow accessible are Star Trek 25th An./Judment Rites ?(7 posts)solved(7 posts)solved
(7 posts)solved