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mike_cesara: I want to.

Excuse me, do we have Steve Ballmer in the thread?
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Magmarock: I'm not a Windows fanboy I just like exe files.
Well, I'm getting an strange impression you behave like one..
Can't you make a petition on change.org to outlaw Linux? Of course this will not change anything but perhaps will make you feel better?
Ok, have no time for another pointless banter. Feel free to not reply to my post : )
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Magmarock: However, to take that point and spin it into “you hate everything that is open source” That, my friend is strawmaning. You stawmaned me and then accused me of doing it to you; nice.
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xyem: The argument "you just hate everything that is open source" is an ad hominem (because it is an attack against the arguer, not the arguments), not a straw-man.

Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument
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xyem: However, claiming that is what they are saying, when they aren't, is a strawman (because their arguments are being mis-respresented), not attacking the arguer (as you said yourself).

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Magmarock: A Strawman is when you misrepresent someone else's argument in hopes to have an easier time at making a point that sidelines their original argument.
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xyem:
I wasn't attacking them in fact in not one of my posts will you find a personal attack (at least you shouldn't) so if you find one by all means bring it to my attention. But he did more then imply that I was against open source. I'm just against being used as an excuse for sloppy work
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Magmarock: I'm not a Windows fanboy I just like exe files.
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mike_cesara: Well, I'm getting an strange impression you behave like one..
Can't you make a petition on change.org to outlaw Linux? Of course this will not change anything but perhaps will make you feel better?
Ok, have no time for another pointless banter. Feel free to not reply to my post : )
For me to be a fanboi. Wouldn't that involve me praising Windows instead just exe files. You can call me a fanboi of portable installers that work... if you wish. I don't always have time for pointless banter with jobs and games and shit. But it good to see you guys do.
Post edited July 06, 2018 by Magmarock
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Magmarock: I wasn't attacking them
and I never said you were.

I was just explaining how what you claimed was said against you would be fallacy, just not a strawman one.
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timppu: Nowadays most Linux distros do seem to hide e.g. the boot-up texts from the user, or if you update stuff through the graphical package manager, by default it maybe shows less to you, but there is pretty much always some way to see the logs etc. with one click or a push of a key, or to set it to show it all by default. Plus, if you do the stuff on a shell instead (e.g. using "sudo apg-get update" instead of some graphical package manafer), then by default you get to see everything right there. This is also one reason I like to do things in the terminal shell in Linux and not look for the graphical utility to do the same.
On that part, especially the startup, that's probably just Plymouth just doing what it does. You can use a simple command to switch it over to a detailed readout or even set up your own custom theme.

For the package installers it depends. Synaptic and DNFdragora show all the nit and grit you need. Things like the KDE Store and Gnome Software? Yeah, that's dumb software for babies.
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Magmarock: I wasn't attacking them
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xyem: and I never said you were.

I was just explaining how what you claimed was said against you would be fallacy, just not a strawman one.
Oh sorry, my mistake.
I use Linux because it is exactly like how I've learned to use computers: hacking commands into a command line to make the machine go "Wow!" and edit configuration files to make the machine do things the way I want them to be done. Plus, it lets me install exactly the system that I need rather than wasting space with all kinds of programs that I don't.

To this day, this is exactly how I prefer to work with computers.

For my preferences Linux is the (almost) perfect operating system.
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Magmarock: For me to be a fanboi. Wouldn't that involve me praising Windows instead just exe files. You can call me a fanboi of portable installers that work... if you wish. I don't always have time for pointless banter with jobs and games and shit. But it good to see you guys do.
I'm still waiting to find out why you like PEs.
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Magmarock: For me to be a fanboi. Wouldn't that involve me praising Windows instead just exe files. You can call me a fanboi of portable installers that work... if you wish. I don't always have time for pointless banter with jobs and games and shit. But it good to see you guys do.
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kohlrak: I'm still waiting to find out why you like PEs.
PE's?
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CatShannon: I use Linux because it is exactly like how I've learned to use computers: hacking commands into a command line to make the machine go "Wow!" and edit configuration files to make the machine do things the way I want them to be done. Plus, it lets me install exactly the system that I need rather than wasting space with all kinds of programs that I don't.

To this day, this is exactly how I prefer to work with computers.

For my preferences Linux is the (almost) perfect operating system.
Any OS with command access can do that. Don't like CMD or Powershell. Then use Python or even bash. Because they added bash to Windows for some reason. Again most of these reasons aren't even unique to Linux. The only thing that is unique is that fact that it's open source so unless you're a programmer proficient in C who wants to change the kernel I don't see how these reasons being particularly unique. Also using commandline isn't hacking.
Post edited July 06, 2018 by Magmarock
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kohlrak: I'm still waiting to find out why you like PEs.
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Magmarock: PE's?
".exe"

Originally, DOS programs used a format called MZ (named after Mark Zbikowski), which ended with the famous "EXE" suffix, as most DOS files did. Since Windows was originally a program for DOS, rather than a standalone operating system, when windows wanted to use the same format for the executables, they came with a "DOS stub," as part of the official PE (Portable Executable) format, which is why if you open up most EXE files, they start with "This cannot be run in DOS mode" or something like that, and are actually valid DOS programs, and that text is actually meant to be displayed if you try to run a windows EXE file from DOS.

You say you're a big fan, but i find it strange you're not familiar with the common acronym people use when referring to the actual format when comparing PEs to other formats, like ELF (Executable and Linkable Format [known for a number of platforms]).
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CatShannon: I use Linux because it is exactly like how I've learned to use computers: hacking commands into a command line to make the machine go "Wow!" and edit configuration files to make the machine do things the way I want them to be done. Plus, it lets me install exactly the system that I need rather than wasting space with all kinds of programs that I don't.

To this day, this is exactly how I prefer to work with computers.

For my preferences Linux is the (almost) perfect operating system.
Any OS with command access can do that. Don't like CMD or Powershell. Then use Python or even bash. Because they added bash to Windows for some reason. Again most of these reasons aren't even unique to Linux. The only thing that is unique is that fact that it's open source so unless you're a programmer proficient in C who wants to change the kernel I don't see how these reasons being particularly unique. Also using commandline isn't hacking.
The tools in particular that are working well for CLI are from open-source projects, also made available to windows, thanks to open-source nature, as well as Microsoft's recent support of the free-software movement.
I wish I would run Linux... actually I did in the past: web servers.
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mike_cesara: Well, I'm getting an strange impression you behave like one..
Can't you make a petition on change.org to outlaw Linux? Of course this will not change anything but perhaps will make you feel better?
Ok, have no time for another pointless banter. Feel free to not reply to my post : )
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Magmarock: For me to be a fanboi. Wouldn't that involve me praising Windows instead just exe files. You can call me a fanboi of portable installers that work... if you wish. I don't always have time for pointless banter with jobs and games and shit. But it good to see you guys do.
Then what? Obsessive–compulsive disorder?
Aren't you the one who want To CD Projekt Red - bring Witcher 3 and your other games to Linux please. thread to be closed? The thread is filled with your.. 'posts'
It seems to me you are the kind of person who desperately seek an attention.
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kohlrak: Originally, DOS programs used a format called MZ (named after Mark Zbikowski), which ended with the famous "EXE" suffix, as most DOS files did. Since Windows was originally a program for DOS, rather than a standalone operating system, when windows wanted to use the same format for the executables, they came with a "DOS stub," as part of the official PE (Portable Executable) format, which is why if you open up most EXE files, they start with "This cannot be run in DOS mode" or something like that, and are actually valid DOS programs, and that text is actually meant to be displayed if you try to run a windows EXE file from DOS.
Out of curiosity, are there any Windows programs with interesting DOS stubs?

(This sort of thing has happened on a few other platforms. Castlevania: Rondo of Blood for the PC Engine would give you a special joke stage to play if you didn't have the proper hardware. Conker's Pocket Tales for the Game Boy Color would, if you tried to play it on a monochrome Game Boy, would actually let you play a monochrome Game Boy version of the entier game (and this feature was advertized, and the cart fit in the older Game Boys as well).)
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kohlrak: Originally, DOS programs used a format called MZ (named after Mark Zbikowski), which ended with the famous "EXE" suffix, as most DOS files did. Since Windows was originally a program for DOS, rather than a standalone operating system, when windows wanted to use the same format for the executables, they came with a "DOS stub," as part of the official PE (Portable Executable) format, which is why if you open up most EXE files, they start with "This cannot be run in DOS mode" or something like that, and are actually valid DOS programs, and that text is actually meant to be displayed if you try to run a windows EXE file from DOS.
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dtgreene: Out of curiosity, are there any Windows programs with interesting DOS stubs?
I'm sure there are, but they're rare. The linker is responsible for making the ending binary format, and it usually doesn't get interesting from there. However, you're free to hex-edit the stubs to have it display a different message, or even do something else entirely, like this, which was done for the SEGA genesis (i'd love to see someone actually do that one).

However, knowing that it wasn't actually used by anything other than DOS, i've seen people try to take advantage of it to store data. I linked it above multiple times, someone actually used the DOS stub to make the world's smallest PE that downloads and executes a file, which worked until Windows XP Service Pack 3, and didn't get blocked by firewalls.
(This sort of thing has happened on a few other platforms. Castlevania: Rondo of Blood for the PC Engine would give you a special joke stage to play if you didn't have the proper hardware. Conker's Pocket Tales for the Game Boy Color would, if you tried to play it on a monochrome Game Boy, would actually let you play a monochrome Game Boy version of the entier game (and this feature was advertized, and the cart fit in the older Game Boys as well).)
Now that's interesting, too. Alot of games, i recall, were GBC games that had a special check for "advance modes." Shantae (whose sequels are available on gog), for example, works just fine on gameboy color, and the advance exclusive content also works on gameboy color. If you change a simple bit in the roms, the gameboy advance "exclusive" content works in all the gameboy emulators.
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Magmarock: For me to be a fanboi. Wouldn't that involve me praising Windows instead just exe files. You can call me a fanboi of portable installers that work... if you wish. I don't always have time for pointless banter with jobs and games and shit. But it good to see you guys do.
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mike_cesara: Then what? Obsessive–compulsive disorder?
Aren't you the one who want To CD Projekt Red - bring Witcher 3 and your other games to Linux please. thread to be closed? The thread is filled with your.. 'posts'
It seems to me you are the kind of person who desperately seek an attention.
OCD yeah actually I do have that. Looks like I'm not the only one though. I don't recall my posts on that thread getting so many down votes.
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kohlrak: Originally, DOS programs used a format called MZ (named after Mark Zbikowski), which ended with the famous "EXE" suffix, as most DOS files did. Since Windows was originally a program for DOS, rather than a standalone operating system, when windows wanted to use the same format for the executables, they came with a "DOS stub," as part of the official PE (Portable Executable) format, which is why if you open up most EXE files, they start with "This cannot be run in DOS mode" or something like that, and are actually valid DOS programs, and that text is actually meant to be displayed if you try to run a windows EXE file from DOS.
When I said I was a big fan I was being facetious. Yes I like exe or rather (portable executables) No I wasn't aware they were once called PE's or the full history of them nor do I really care. I just like being able to copy a thing from a thing, double click the thing and then have the thing work.
Post edited July 06, 2018 by Magmarock
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kohlrak: Originally, DOS programs used a format called MZ (named after Mark Zbikowski), which ended with the famous "EXE" suffix, as most DOS files did. Since Windows was originally a program for DOS, rather than a standalone operating system, when windows wanted to use the same format for the executables, they came with a "DOS stub," as part of the official PE (Portable Executable) format, which is why if you open up most EXE files, they start with "This cannot be run in DOS mode" or something like that, and are actually valid DOS programs, and that text is actually meant to be displayed if you try to run a windows EXE file from DOS.
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Magmarock: When I said I was a big fan I was being facetious. Yes I like exe or rather (portable executables) No I wasn't aware they were once called PE's or the full history of them nor do I really care. I just like being able to copy a thing from a thing, double click the thing and then have the thing work.
Works more often with Linux than windows, yet your arguments here aren't about how you like windows, but instead how you don't like the FOSS movement and Linux. On linux you can copypasta and all that just like usual, except linux does have one cool feature that's left out, not that it's a big one or anything, but linux doesn't lock files from deletion like windows: so a file that's running can be deleted while it's running, which is an issue for virus removal in windows. If you try to disable the virus, it likes to run 2 or 3 copies at a time. If you can delete it before cutting it out of the system, you can knock it out entirely. Plus, it doesn't result in the need for tools like "unlocker" simply because a folder you're trying to delete was recently open in windows explorer, even if it isn't currently open. And this is ignoring the self-contained executable and save file potential.

However, that's a really obscure example, but it serves a point. What you're saying you want to be able to do that windows provides you with, those things are also in the alternatives. Your arguments are falling apart, and fast, and seem to be missing this quality of you performing self-analysis.

So, in order to solve that problem, I'd like to take a shot at guessing what your real issue is, if you don't mind. You admitted that it's personal with you, you admitted that you actually believed in Linux before. You admit that people in the linux community were giving certain unknown individuals a hard time due to elitism. I'm going to go out on a limb, and suggest that maybe you're just really sore at Linux and FOSS because of a loud minority, silent majority setup. You didn't like a change that was made when you were trying out linux, or maybe you wanted something to be different. You believed that in FOSS that it could or would be possible to simply request it and it would be, which was wrong. Perhaps you didn't like the move away from menu type interfaces to cellphone style interfaces (a major problem i had which is what had me leave ubuntu: there was talk about making their own new interface a mandatory standard, so i switched to Fedora), or maybe you don't like the issue with dependencies (which is a real problem all around, but you don't have this programmer vibe that would expose you to the reality of this), or who knows. When you suggested that efforts be focused on the problem you suggested, you got mocked, and hardcore mocked. With your ego bruised, and not being able to make or maintain the changes that you wanted, you got really sore really quick, and blamed the community as a whole for the actions of a few (as evidenced by the fact that you suggest I'm very, very different from the rest of the linux community, when in reality i am, but not for the reasons you describe). You've become too invested, by taking too bold of stances with those around you, people here, and elsewhere, for you to admit that maybe you were wrong, because that would be totally embarrassing. I'm probably not 100% right, but this is my working idea, right now. So, how'd i do?