Yes, those two deserved to be treated like criminals. They were caught trying to recruit someone. That is all the evidence people need to know that these two were serious(if they caught them on video or on the internet and didn't catch them because someone said something)... Going after two people because someone said "They tried to recruit me." would be idiotic. I will read the article now to see what really happened. Ok, I just read the article about those two in Finland. "The police have acquired the emails, text messages and other messages the accused sent each other for over a period of one year." So they did find proper evidence so those two definitely deserve to be treated like criminals because they are...

Back to Elliot Rodgers. In his first video, IF he said he will do illegal things like murder people then the police should of searched his room but if it's just someone being sad(maybe suicidial) in a Youtube video, that someone should not be treated like a criminal suspect. Yeah, the cops did check on him. They asked him if he is thinking about killing himself and I think that is normal. But searching his home would of been beyond fucked up. I would of considered such an action, a huge violation of his rights and the violation of all our rights. It is insane to think sad or angry Youtube video = planning a mass murder rampage. The world is full of very sad, very angry people and they don't go out and murder people.

Here is his video. If you watch it, you will see, that he did not reveal he was planning on doing something. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFAt3ChOsuA&bpctr=1401342709

Arizona toddler picks up handgun, pulls trigger, kills baby brother

----
re: main topic

i am old enough to have been accused of devil worship for playing PnP's. For real :)

The gun control debate is large and changes drastically from country to country. Case in point: Homogenous, tiny places like Finland or Sweden are completely irrelevant to the wildly diverse, sprawling US. Finland has 5.5 people. 3% non-Finnish, with extremely low population density. The US is none of that.

If you really want to learn more about gun use statistics in the US, there are several links posted in this thread that are a good place to start, and more information is just a search away. If you just want troll, please don't. We get enough of that from our elected leaders, we don't want it from random people in other countries.

ETA: I genuinely can't tell if you're being sarcastic. If you aren't, FYI this is a hard topic to investigate in the US due to differences in reporting standards. The statistics we do have are pretty broad, but do point to more legal guns and better gun training coinciding with lowered violent crime and gun crime. No one's sure if that's a causal relationship, and it's hard to measure the opportunistic suicides that wouldn't have happened if the owner didn't have a gun. The extreme cases where gun owners are criminally irresponsible and cause harm don't help either side think logically.

Answering some of the very reasonable questions in this debate - like 'Would suicides drop if there were fewer guns, or would only gun-suicides drop and other suicides rise, or something else happen entirely?' means either predicting the future or reading people's minds, which is part of why people get so frustrated.

My position is that we let teenagers drive cars after a month of school and many hours of training. Cars are just as deadly as guns. People don't freak out on the national news when someone has a terrible car accident, despite that causing massive damage and loss of life. I think we need to treat guns like cars. They're potentially valuable tools that are also extremely dangerous. There should be standardized training and licensing. People also need to get some perspective.

I agree, I always find it strange when gun advocates point to those countries as evidence that the absurd gun laws in the US are not the reason for the gun violence there.

I'm not sure if you read any of my previous posts. I suspect not. My question specifically related to a comment that rape statistics in Australia are higher than in the US and, impliedly, this has something to do with gun ownership. I have heard these statistics before - in fact I recall one popular youtuber claiming that Australia had 3 times as many rapes as the US. I have never seen any statistics to back that up. As an Australian, those comments interest me.

The fact that you think your politicians are trolling or that "random people from other countries" are trolling (suggesting that the country they live in has some effect on their ability to reason or put forward logical arguments) says a lot in my opinion.

Did you miss the comma too?

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KydSAKywdE&feature=kp) this may clear things up for you....

heck no. I just find this absurd obsession funny.

My point was more that trying to compare Finland gun use statistics to the US is utterly absurd. That different countries have different gun laws is entirely appropriate, just like different countries having different laws of all kinds is. I think that's the opposite of your point.

If you actually read any of the other posts in the thread which link to gun use statistics you would see that:
1) Most legal guns are not involved in gun crimes. Illegal guns are.
2) An increase in legal gun ownership over the past few decades has coincided with a drop in violent gun crimes. That's not a causal link, but it does strongly suggest that your premise of 'many legal guns = more gun crime' that underlies calling US gun laws absurd is incorrect.

I hadn't read through all the previous posts in the thread. There are in fact people in other countries who hold strong opinions about US policy and will troll in support of their opinion, despite it not being their country. It's great if you haven't run into those, but I definitely have. I'm not sure where you got an implication that I think where someone is from has any effect on their ability to reason? That's definitely not what I said. Are you sure you aren't projecting a bit?

The politicians thing was an attempt at a joke. Partisanship has gotten to such a pitch in the US that political debates resemble forum flame wars more often than we'd like to admit. Everyone's gearing up for the next presidential race and it's going to get ugly. Anyone who pays attention to US politics is bracing themselves (or ordering extra popcorn) because this round is probably going to be even more absurd than last time.

Hahahaha. Where the fuck did I mention Finland (or Sweden for that matter)? You mentioned both those countries, not me.

Where am I talking about links between gun crimes and legal/illegal guns? What makes you think I give a shit about that? I was asking specifically about rape statistics in Australia compared to the US. What on earth makes you think I have any interest in the "statistics" you mention above?

Where did I suggest that 'many legal guns = more gun crime'? Why are you trying to convince me about a topic I have no interest in? Are you supposed to be replying to someone else's posts or is English your second language?