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Hawk52: I didn't like how they handled Endless Space from a business perspective,
Do you mean how they marketed the game, or how they implemented the in-game economy?

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MaskedCreep: I actually had entry in that competition as writing practice, but I can't really use the poll to see whether my idea was good or bad since I can't tell whether I'm doing badly because I was unlucky to be in middle of 99 instead of beginning or end of the list or because people just don't like my idea or it was badly written =/ It did get decent amount of votes, but nowhere near the top ten of the poll.
I could have written an entry as well, but when I looked into the forum, I saw that a) someone else had already submitted something very similar to my idea, and b) people were already running around drumming up support or their favorite ideas, giving them a headstart. I decided it wasn't worth the effort, I would have needed to buy the game earlier to have a chance.

The form of the community vote could certainly be improved. Still, nice that they do such a thing at all.
Post edited May 11, 2014 by Psyringe
I mean how they handled the game post-launch.

Two big things really hit a nerve. The first was during one of the Steam sales last year, they put Endless Space & Disharmony together for 9.99. The same exact price Disharmony was since they didn't offer a discount on just the DLC. So basically, they were telling existing players to go F themselves. Not only did we pay more for the base game, but they couldn't be bothered to offer a discount, even a 50% would have been fine. Also, it's worth noting this was extremely soon after the expansion came out. So in that way they nailed loyal customers who bought it, and then within a month or two discounted it to almost nothing for new players.

And the other is they basically blackmailed Endless Space players into buying Dungeon of the Endless, because only with buying Dungeon would you get an exclusive race for Endless Space, and only if you bought the special edition. No option for buying the other faction as a DLC or anything. You either buy the new game at $15 or you don't have the complete game. They promise to release the race as a future DLC, but they've been saying that for awhile.

From what I've seen, as soon as Disharmony came out they pretty much abandoned Endless Space with the last patch mostly dealing with fixing the Vaulters (Dungeon of the Endless race). Probably 75% of their entire pitch about Endless Space was how they cared about the community and would create synergy between the players and what was in the game.

I get that they're a business and need to generate revenue. And none of this has any impact on their games themselves. But I really don't like being treated like some type of unwanted trash by gaming companies and then discarded when my usefulness is up.
Post edited May 11, 2014 by Hawk52
I neglected to say i did have a look at Endless Legend and also perused the forum for comments - i think the AI (which they are yet to work on -- there is a very basic one judging from the comments) will make or break it for me and for others interested in it for singleplayer (is there much emphasis on multi? -- didnt really see it) -- anyone it looks nice & interesting - at least its not claiming to be the second coming of MOO unlike certain others (here's looking at you Horizon) . Shame they wont offer the game DRM free. I guess i could always go to my local steamgift reseller and get it for cheaper....:)
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Hawk52: And the other is they basically blackmailed Endless Space players into buying Dungeon of the Endless, because only with buying Dungeon would you get an exclusive race for Endless Space, and only if you bought the special edition. No option for buying the other faction as a DLC or anything. You either buy the new game at $15 or you don't have the complete game. They promise to release the race as a future DLC, but they've been saying that for awhile.
To be fair, they will probably really release vaulters for those who didn't buy dungeon of the endless/endless legend later when those games are released. At least from what I understand thats what happened with sheredyn: They started out as exclusive skin for more expensive version of the game but where eventually made into their own faction and released for everyone.

Vaulters in ES feel unfinished since at the moment they are only faction without intro cutscene and without victory or gameover picture. So if they REALLY have finished with ES and don't even bother adding stuff to vaulters so that they have same things as other factions... Yeah, that'd really be nail in the coffin.
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Hawk52: ...
They also offered fantastic post-release support, going as far as releasing new content for free and, IIRC, incorporating patch fixes from the expansion into the base game - and just generally, they have been patching it a lot. They're also very good at listening to community, tweaking the combat system to give player a bit more control and putting in content created by community.

Just... Post-release support and reliability seems far more important than a sale of product which sells for like 8 EUR anyway and a race which can really only be added as a DLC once it's finished and polished (which even the game it comes with isn't).
Also, it seems like there isn't any way of security preventing someone making a spambot or asking their 50 friends to make an account and vote <_< You'd think that you would at least need 10 posts or been around for month or something before you can vote in community competitions. That does show that amplitude doesn't really care enough to organize these things well.
Post edited May 12, 2014 by MaskedCreep
I, too, would like to know when this game is coming to GOG. Any updates on the matter?
50% on steam, feel like getting it. I'll then LOL if it comes on GOG next Tuesday and wasting money on the steam version.
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cw8: 50% on steam, feel like getting it. I'll then LOL if it comes on GOG next Tuesday and wasting money on the steam version.
Doubt it would be here anytime soon.
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cw8: 50% on steam, feel like getting it. I'll then LOL if it comes on GOG next Tuesday and wasting money on the steam version.
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Sachys: Doubt it would be here anytime soon.
Wish I had some sixth sense skill to see what games were coming on GOG, so I don't have to keep double dipping when the games come here eventually.
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Sachys: Doubt it would be here anytime soon.
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cw8: Wish I had some sixth sense skill to see what games were coming on GOG, so I don't have to keep double dipping when the games come here eventually.
I'd rather wait on a GOG sale for Age of Wonders 3, but good luck. :S
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cw8: Wish I had some sixth sense skill to see what games were coming on GOG, so I don't have to keep double dipping when the games come here eventually.
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realkman666: I'd rather wait on a GOG sale for Age of Wonders 3, but good luck. :S
I bought AOW3 at launch on GOG.
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realkman666: I'd rather wait on a GOG sale for Age of Wonders 3, but good luck. :S
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cw8: I bought AOW3 at launch on GOG.
Do you like the Dire Penguins?
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cw8: I bought AOW3 at launch on GOG.
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realkman666: Do you like the Dire Penguins?
Yeap.
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Hawk52: ...
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Fenixp: They also offered fantastic post-release support, going as far as releasing new content for free and, IIRC, incorporating patch fixes from the expansion into the base game - and just generally, they have been patching it a lot. They're also very good at listening to community, tweaking the combat system to give player a bit more control and putting in content created by community.

Just... Post-release support and reliability seems far more important than a sale of product which sells for like 8 EUR anyway and a race which can really only be added as a DLC once it's finished and polished (which even the game it comes with isn't).
Spot on. I've been a fan of Endless Space for years and the developers are really good at sticking around for the long term with their games. Considering they're a small studio that at the same time develop a couple more games that is even more telling of their commitment to their games.
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MaskedCreep: So anyway, this game is 4x fantasy spin off of 4x scifi game Endless Space... I only heard about Endless Space while ago and got interested since I like Moo type games. I notice though that there seems to be a lot of negativity towards ES so whats that about?
A lot and a mean a lot of gamers think Endless Space looks nice, buy it and get totally smashed by the easiest AI because they doesn't understand a thing.
They get mad, scream that the AI cheat and bash the whole game any way they can. I think it's the graphics that lure so many new players to the genre to it.

Btw it IS a hard game to learn to play well because even if you're a 4X veteran you will have a hard time with it before you've learned it.

That and a lot seems to think the combat is bland. Me myself I still like to watch the battles after having played it for years. It's fun watching my ships shoot it out with the enemy and hoping my strategy with the cards, which by the way often wins or loses a battle will be successful.

Most of the negativity comes from those two things. Basically it does things in its own way and many gamers want what they're used to.

Regarding Endless Legend I'm holding off on that for a while. I'm in the crowd that would have wanted it in a more scifi setting even though the games they've made are in the same universe and do share stories between them to some extent.
Also I got tired of the constant pushing for buying the beta and such. I'm not that glad of buying games not considered ready for a full release by the developer.