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Games aren't just games anymore... they've evolved into something better... they've evolved past Pac-Man and Mario, they've become epic journeys through detailed worlds, fun quests, missions, items, and much, much more! But as graphics went up.. content went down... and a good example is the elder scrolls series... as in arena's case, it was huge! then Daggerfall, bigger, but then Morrowind. it was smaller, and there was more graphics, but it was a twilight of graphics and content, the perfect game, with just a few flaws. then, oblivion. oblivion is extremely detailed compared to other elder scrolls.. but it is extremely small in content compared to the others, too.
Are games getting better, or worse?
This question / problem has been solved by StormHammerimage
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cogadh: Besides, is it really a rip or plagiarism when some of the original team from Diablo actually made Torchlight? In fact, the guy responsible for the music and sound design in Torchlight is the same guy who did it on Diablo, so it really shouldn't be surprising that some of it is reminiscent of Diablo.

You're not exactly making it sound more original, you know. But what is it about Torchlight that you think is so original then? Because I can't think of anything other than the two things I mentioned earlier.
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cogadh: Besides, is it really a rip or plagiarism when some of the original team from Diablo actually made Torchlight? In fact, the guy responsible for the music and sound design in Torchlight is the same guy who did it on Diablo, so it really shouldn't be surprising that some of it is reminiscent of Diablo.
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Wishbone: You're not exactly making it sound more original, you know. But what is it about Torchlight that you think is so original then? Because I can't think of anything other than the two things I mentioned earlier.

I think you are taking the definition of "original" too narrowly. I only meant original as in "not yet another sequel" in comparison to what the big publishers mostly produce.
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cogadh: I think you are taking the definition of "original" too narrowly. I only meant original as in "not yet another sequel" in comparison to what the big publishers mostly produce.

Hehe, you could have saved us both a lot of arguing if you'd made that clear from the start ;-)
But then the indies don't really have a choice, as they don't have any established IPs to make sequels from. They have to make something original. Give them a few years, and you'll start seeing sequels from them too.
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Wishbone: You're not exactly making it sound more original, you know. But what is it about Torchlight that you think is so original then? Because I can't think of anything other than the two things I mentioned earlier.
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cogadh: I think you are taking the definition of "original" too narrowly. I only meant original as in "not yet another sequel" in comparison to what the big publishers mostly produce.

Then in that case, Gears of War was REALLY original.
Halo was REALLY original.
That 50 Cent Game where you go to Iraq to fight people for your stolen goods is REALLY original :p
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Gundato: Then in that case, Gears of War was REALLY original.
Halo was REALLY original.
That 50 Cent Game where you go to Iraq to fight people for your stolen goods is REALLY original :p

You're right, they were when they first came out, but rather than try out something new after that, they kept making completely unoriginal and non-innovative sequels to those games (especially Halo) that are in the end, really no different from every other game that all the other publishers are also making. On the rare occasion when the publishers invest time and money in something that is original, it often ends up being a severe disappointment due to the "dumbing down for the masses" that has already been discussed here (obviously there are exceptions).
The indies aren't bound by any of that. Sure, they can and have made sequels to their games, but they don't have a board of directors and/or investors saying to them "why don't we just make another Halo, that made us a ton of money before" and shooting down every other original idea that crosses their desks. They have the freedom to not make a sequel when they want to and if they do make a sequel, they aren't required to do the safe thing and make it the same as the original.
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Gundato: That 50 Cent Game where you go to Iraq to fight people for your stolen goods is REALLY original :p

That was original to be honest. Name a rapper with their own game.
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cogadh: The indies aren't bound by any of that. Sure, they can and have made sequels to their games, but they don't have a board of directors and/or investors saying to them "why don't we just make another Halo, that made us a ton of money before" and shooting down every other original idea that crosses their desks. They have the freedom to not make a sequel when they want to and if they do make a sequel, they aren't required to do the safe thing and make it the same as the original.

You are right, they don't have a board of directors to say "why don't we make another Halo, that made us a ton of money before". They just have a small group of people saying that :p
And while they don't have someone to "shoot down every other original idea that crosses their desks", they also have nowhere near as many people to generate those ideas. And, not every "original" idea is good. A phone made out of jello is a pretty original idea, but I don't think any of us would want one :p
Also, they may have the freedom to not have to make a sequel, but what if they want to make one? And what if they want to do the same thing they already did because they enjoyed that?
There is also the argument: They don't have the freedom to NOT make a sequel the same as the original. If you are trying to turn a profit, you need to do something profitable. Like it or not, but big companies like Ubi, EA, and Activision can finance the crazy ideas. Wolfire games, not so much (fun fact, Overgrowth is going to be more of the same :p).
Like I keep saying: There are pros and cons on both sides of the fence. But, end of the day, you need to judge every game on its own merit. Otherwise, you are going to be just like those little idiots who only like bands because nobody has ever heard of them (and then say "They sold out" after people start listening).
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Gundato: That 50 Cent Game where you go to Iraq to fight people for your stolen goods is REALLY original :p
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Rohan15: That was original to be honest. Name a rapper with their own game.

Curtis James Jakson III.
What? You didn't say I had to name a different rapper.
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Orryyrro: Curtis James Jakson III.

Da fuck, who?
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Rohan15: That was original to be honest. Name a rapper with their own game.
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Orryyrro: Curtis James Jakson III.
What? You didn't say I had to name a different rapper.

Honestly, I just make it a point to reference that game every chance I get. It really IS obscenely original and interesting, and if it weren't an annoying rapper, I suspect we would all cheer that it is going back to the old gaming style.
Incredibly absurd premise? Check.
Mindless gameplay? Looks like it
So absurd that you aren't sure if it is a joke or not? Hell yes
Plot that exists solely to advance the gameplay? God I hope so
Shame it never came out for the PC.
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Orryyrro: Curtis James Jakson III.
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Rohan15: Da fuck, who?

it's 50 Cent's actual name. (yes I looked it up for that response)
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Orryyrro: it's 50 Cent's actual name. (yes I looked it up for that response)

See, I forgot, and it came back to me when I posted it. Fail.
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Gundato: That 50 Cent Game where you go to Iraq to fight people for your stolen goods is REALLY original :p
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Rohan15: That was original to be honest. Name a rapper with their own game.

I'm not sure of the chronology of when these games came out but there was Def Jam Vendetta on the GC and more recently Xzibit kinda had a cameo in that Pimp My Ride game...
Really interesting debate this. I feel that I'm quite lucky in that in terms of my age I'm kind of on the cusp of being an older gamer and can feel cynical about newer releases, but still young enough to get sucked into the hype of newer games. I guess it's all about our perceptions and opinions. My own opinion is that games have become easier with the advent of 3D games. The early Castlevania and Megaman games for instance were *nuts*. No doubt there are other better examples too.
My gripe with gaming at the moment is more to do with the longevity of consoles. I'm happy with the state of games generally.
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Gam0rdude: But as graphics went up.. content went down... and a good example is the elder scrolls series... as in arena's case, it was huge! then Daggerfall, bigger, but then Morrowind. it was smaller, and there was more graphics, but it was a twilight of graphics and content, the perfect game, with just a few flaws. then, oblivion. oblivion is extremely detailed compared to other elder scrolls.. but it is extremely small in content compared to the others, too.
Are games getting better, or worse?

Taking your Elder Scrolls example, I think refinement over time is a good thing. Daggerfall was undeniably vast in comparison to Morrowind, but the towns were populated by mostly randomly generated people, and the fetch and carry quests in the randomly generated dungeons all began to feel the same after a while. I played that game for a few hundred hours, and honestly did not feel as if I was any closer to completing it as when I started - but the reason I eventually stopped playing it was due to randomly falling through the landscape into the void one too many times.
By contrast, when I played Morrowind, it felt more manageable, with more memorable characters, places and encounters. Oblivion refined the gameplay and setting further, fixing some of the shortcomings of the previous games, while introducing other controversial elements (such as auto-levelling to make it easier for novices to complete the game). Problems aside, I did feel that Oblivion was a more cohesive and well-realised world, that it came more to life for me, and as a result I sank over a thousand hours of my free time into it without regret. Of course, after playing the vanilla version all the way through once, I modded the hell out of it - and that, I think, is the great strength of ES3 and ES4. It was an inspired decision to build modability right into the game, so people could adapt the games to their own vision and style.
That was one of the positive ways that games have evolved - but now, of course, we see more and more games simply trying to cash in on extra content with DLC you must pay for - the 'nickel and diming' syndrome that is a growing cancer at the heart of gaming, driven by nothing more than simple greed.
On the whole, then, I would say that games nowadays are technically more proficient (although at the same time more prone to bugs), and can sometimes exhibit the traits of ongoing refinement over the years in interesting ways, which can lead to a more enjoyable gaming experience. At the same time, though, it is a sad fact that many games have been made too 'accessible' to the point where you hardly need to engage your brain to complete them, and have to suffer constant reminders to press this or that button to carry out a task.
We also have to remember that back in the 'golden age' of games, a single model artist would be churning out several of the monsters and characters themselves, whereas now a single character on screen has probably gone through many 3D artists, all concentrating on different aspects, like a shoe, or a glove, or a weapon. In this kind of culture of 'creation by committee' those sparks of artistic vision and ingenuity are often lost in the background noise, and not carried through to fruition. There is a sense of more and more games becoming generic as a result, because 'generic' shifts units and sells.
It's like taking an elegantly hand-crafted chair, and then turning it over to a committee to make it more 'accessible' and 'cost effective' before it's put on a production line - and its creative value is gradually chipped away and lost until all you have remaining is a functional 'seat'. It does the job - but it just doesn't compare to the original, and leaves you unsatisfied.
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Gam0rdude: But as graphics went up.. content went down... and a good example is the elder scrolls series... as in arena's case, it was huge! then Daggerfall, bigger, but then Morrowind. it was smaller, and there was more graphics, but it was a twilight of graphics and content, the perfect game, with just a few flaws. then, oblivion. oblivion is extremely detailed compared to other elder scrolls.. but it is extremely small in content compared to the others, too.
Are games getting better, or worse?
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StormHammer: Taking your Elder Scrolls example, I think refinement over time is a good thing. Daggerfall was undeniably vast in comparison to Morrowind, but the towns were populated by mostly randomly generated people, and the fetch and carry quests in the randomly generated dungeons all began to feel the same after a while. I played that game for a few hundred hours, and honestly did not feel as if I was any closer to completing it as when I started - but the reason I eventually stopped playing it was due to randomly falling through the landscape into the void one too many times.
By contrast, when I played Morrowind, it felt more manageable, with more memorable characters, places and encounters. Oblivion refined the gameplay and setting further, fixing some of the shortcomings of the previous games, while introducing other controversial elements (such as auto-levelling to make it easier for novices to complete the game). Problems aside, I did feel that Oblivion was a more cohesive and well-realised world, that it came more to life for me, and as a result I sank over a thousand hours of my free time into it without regret. Of course, after playing the vanilla version all the way through once, I modded the hell out of it - and that, I think, is the great strength of ES3 and ES4. It was an inspired decision to build modability right into the game, so people could adapt the games to their own vision and style.
That was one of the positive ways that games have evolved - but now, of course, we see more and more games simply trying to cash in on extra content with DLC you must pay for - the 'nickel and diming' syndrome that is a growing cancer at the heart of gaming, driven by nothing more than simple greed.
On the whole, then, I would say that games nowadays are technically more proficient (although at the same time more prone to bugs), and can sometimes exhibit the traits of ongoing refinement over the years in interesting ways, which can lead to a more enjoyable gaming experience. At the same time, though, it is a sad fact that many games have been made too 'accessible' to the point where you hardly need to engage your brain to complete them, and have to suffer constant reminders to press this or that button to carry out a task.
We also have to remember that back in the 'golden age' of games, a single model artist would be churning out several of the monsters and characters themselves, whereas now a single character on screen has probably gone through many 3D artists, all concentrating on different aspects, like a shoe, or a glove, or a weapon. In this kind of culture of 'creation by committee' those sparks of artistic vision and ingenuity are often lost in the background noise, and not carried through to fruition. There is a sense of more and more games becoming generic as a result, because 'generic' shifts units and sells.
It's like taking an elegantly hand-crafted chair, and then turning it over to a committee to make it more 'accessible' and 'cost effective' before it's put on a production line - and its creative value is gradually chipped away and lost until all you have remaining is a functional 'seat'. It does the job - but it just doesn't compare to the original, and leaves you unsatisfied.

you, sir are enlightened.
You have solved my question about games at their VERY Essence...
Good Job!