I actually enjoy battlespire still today. :P

That was a pretty good insight of what has happened with the games. Skyrim indeed feels like parts of it were worked on without much input from people working on other parts, and no one notices what's going on. The emperor dying should be a huge event in and of itself, regardless if they know who killed him, and instead, you can complete the civil war on the Empire's side without word 1 about the death of the emperor sending the Empire into temporary chaos. You can do SOOO many things without repercussions, good or bad. No one notes you as a hero for numerous good deeds or has a bad attitude toward you for negative things. That's one place where Morrowind got it mostly right. In fact, I play Morrowind with many mods, one of them being a combat mod that makes the combat more fluid and responsive (because you're right. While I prefer dice rolling in isometric RPGs, I prefer real time hit and miss in first person) because it is still such a deep game.

I think a lot of what hurt newer games for depth was the feel that everything needed to be voiced. I think that was a bad move on their part. Having a line or two of voiced dialogue with the rest being readable far far preferable to me, though Morrowind's dialogue trees seemed needlessly complex with very little depth except a few items. In that respect it felt much like Daggerfall's dialogue options which were great except everyone said the same thing.

Having to voice everything makes the dialogues smaller by default and that in turn minimizes the amount of subtle and creative storytelling your NPCs can do. There's a reason why people want Morrowind remade with better graphics and those small problems fixed.

I didn't like Skyrim for the same reason I didn't like Morrowind though. You were forced to be some chosen one by the story if you decided to do the main quest. In Oblivion and Daggerfall, you're just a guy. You're the catalyst for events happening, but you're not THE guy that everyone is looking at. You're the guy next to the guy that everyone sees as the saviour (or just a guy sent as an emissary who uncovers a larger plot, in the case of Daggerfall). Skyrim says "Either you or Ulfric is the chosen one, and he's tied up with the civil war."

And that brings me back to the civil war. It is an event that has almost NO effect on the world. You don't see more imperial soldiers around because the Empire won. You don't see Stormcloak press mobs attacking imperials in the street. You don't see ANY effects of the civil war outside the areas where the civil war quests directly take place. It's like 90% of Skyrim isn't even involved.

I love Skyrim as a game. I think it is a technically awesome specimen. But it lacks a certain character and cohesiveness to the world that in the end, just makes it less fun to me. I've spent less time with it than ANY previous Elder Scrolls title because it missed so hard on so many points, even with some awesome mods. It's not the worst Title by far, in my opinion, but it feels like many other Elder Scrolls titles; SO much promise and potential to fall just short. Dagger fall was a buggy disaster in this way and EVERYONE LOVED IT. Skyrim is much the same. Great potential and wonderful ideas, but it fell just short to me.

Okay, I have to call you on that. Morrowind did NOT ship with relatively few bugs. If you say that, you never played the original, unpatched Morrowind, without expansions. Lots of crashes, memory leaks, corrupt save games... Morrowind was a mess. The worst was the Xbox version of the original Morrowind, which could not be patched. It wasn't until the GOTY version came out that most of these problems were fixed. ZeniMax did not suddenly ruin Bethesda's games with bad QA, Bethesda has to take responsibility for that itself.

^^This. And let's not forget the intially released version of Daggerfall...

Fuck the bugs. Basically as long as the game starts I'm fine with buggy games on release if they are so good at moddable sandbox with good graphic quality as the elder scrolls games.

Nice video. I'm not fully on board with a lot of the points, but I think you brought up some unique perspectives in terms of specific questlines you talked about.

I find that Dragonborn is everything that TES should strive to be. More in scope, more in depth, more sprawling in its visual direction, more invoking of that sense of mystery, and more alienating. I didn't spend a lot of time with Dragonborn, but I'm raring to get back to it. The problem I find with the series is that it's too large without many aspects of management that normally come iwth something like that. Daggerfall feels more roted because there's things you need to keep track of, whereas Skyrim is just big and you tick off boxes as you leave town.

I'll be watching some of your other vids later.

I definitely want to watch this and be involved; But currently visiting friends and their internet seems like crap right now...

edit: Managed to watch it in low quality. Decent video, although i'd have loved to hear more about Morrowind as that's the only game i've put some 100+ hours into and loved to death.

It's a balancing act in the end, the more you spread content out the greater the risk that the experience is very thin. The more you make the content compact, the greater the risk of being underwhelming (you have a more short amount of time to impress the player).

First of all: I'm a Bethesda and especially Skyrim fanboy. I've put more hours into it than in any other game.
While I can agree with a lot of your points like the civil war and the radiant quest system, there are some points that I see differently.

- The guild questlines and how they fit into the world.
You over idealized the Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion as not necessarily evil. I agree (somewhat) with Morrowinds Morag Tong which is part of the political system. But the entry into the DB guild is by default, to murder innocent people. Was so in Daggerfall and Oblivion. Just because the plotline in Oblivion made it that it's turned towards the inside of the guild, doesn't change a thing about why they do it: money, fame and religious believes (Sithis / Night mother).
The murdering of the Emperor (and the road towards it) was a highlight for me in Skyrims questslines. In fact, it's one of the things (with the dragons) where I fear for the next TES game, as you simply can't top it.

Also take note that the Morag Tong did it before - in [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:First_Era#1E_2920]1E 2920[/url] the Emperor Reman Cyrodiil III (which marks the start of the Second Era) and in [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Second_Era#2E_324]2E 324[/url] his follower the Potentate Versidue-Shaie (which marks the split between Morag Tong and the start of the Dark Brotherhood).

The Thieves questline worked rather good for me, but that's just personal opinion. As much as your view of the Mages guild, which has received by far the most complains as far as I can tell. ;)

- running out of arrows as an archer before Dawnguard? Nope. Played archer from the start and never had problems with this one, at least not after lvl 5 - use some of your gold that burden your purse.

- underwhelming Dragon lore. No, just no. Take a look at the implementation of the [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dragon_Language]dragon language[/url] and that the [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Word_Wall]word walls[/url] actually tell little stories. I agree that they could have put more into the actual storytelling but lore wise? Just no.

- Hearthfire, especially the adoption system. Take a look at (shameless self-promotion) my little series about it. Yes, it needs mods. No, it won't be the same with vanilla Skyrim.

- Details. Yes a lot of details in Skyrim get's overlooked - by the players, that is. Take a look at [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Sapphire_%28person%29]Sapphire[/url], a low priority NPC of the Thieves Guild. She's involved in one very minor and completely missable quest. However, if you dig a bit deeper, you actually get an interesting backstory that even get's expanded (again, completely missable) with Dragonborn - how many Skyrim critics that claim "depth of a puddle" cared or digged deep enough to find out?

I liked your video. One suggestion though:
Videos that criticize Skyrim and it's flaws, shortcomings and why it's unable to hold a candle to Morrowind are a dime a dozen. How about adding what Skyrim has done better than past titles, apart from the obvious technical / graphics side?
Take a look at the behaviour of NPCs. Or their personalities and compare it to Oblivion or even Morrowind (which completely lacks it, besides Vivec, Almalexia, Yagrum Bagarn and Crassius Curio). Take a look at Speechcraft in Morrowind, how they tried to improve it in Oblivion (and why it obviously failed), to how they did it in Skyrim. The list (and possibilities) goes on...

Yes, check them..... please. How many of those bugs you would consider "gamebreaking"? How many of those listed have you actually experienced personally while playing? Let me guess.... the answer to both questions is: about none.
I've played Skyrim probably longer than anyone here and experienced 3 major bugs: a broken quest in Markarth Cidhna Mine, the backward flying dragons introduced in a patch and the savegame bloating (though no corruption) - all of them were fixed by Bethesda - it's a perfectly playable game even without those unofficial patches.

I want Morrowind remade too, but certainly not because of the dialogues. Ask any of the 90+ NPCs in Balmora about Balmora and you get.... the very same answer, word by word, from each and every one of them (personal reminder: have to check about it in other parts of the world, too).

The Dark Brotherhood is the victim of modular writing across different franchises, and I will fully admit that it's inconsistent. But there is a general theme to it that is mentioned by Lucien Lachance and some other guy in Daggerfall (I forgot when). It's basically "As long has the Sacrament is being performed, we will exist". It's the same idea as the bad guy speech in Tony Montana https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-IkF4_iGBY . It's more of a "society needs us even though we are evil" kind of theme

The Dark Brotherhood in Skyrim are murderous thugs for all intents and purposes. And most people (me included) find that boring to play (I still find the fact that you can promise to the emperor that you will kill the guy who hired him to be utterly pointless, I mean it's basically a murder gang at this point). Which doesn't mean it's not impossible to make something like this good, Hitman manages it but having a lot of gallows humor and some wink wink nudge absurd moments that make it all seem comic booky.

The Mage questline is bland and badly paced, I didn't find anything too bad with it more than it's just very unsurprising (perhaps being so boring is worse than all others).

Well I am glad you managed to squeeze some enjoyment out of the thieves guild (my personal most hated point is when you are forced to strike a deal with Nocturnal...as if a Dragonborn wouldn't be capable of defeating a Nightingale, maybe Karliah or Mercer should go fight Alduin if they are that powerful)

You are lucky regarding the arrows, this was a non-stop complaint on the forums (it's probably tied to difficulty too). I remember having to go all over Skyrim (at launch) to buy every single arrow I found. I rejoiced fighting the falmer since they had so many of them.

This is where I fully disagree with you. My point was that all of the lore regarding dragons was pretty much used before, we get very little revealed. The little stories on the word wall are cute but they are hidden flavor mostly (and most of them are "This guy fought this guy in this area and it was a good fight").
We don't know:
-The akaviri connection to dragons (that's where they come from)
-The dragons relationship with the nine
-The dragons relationship with Daedra
-The origin of the akaviri blades
-Why dragonborns exist (Gods decided that you will be great is really really really boring)
-You don't get to talk with the dragons about a lot of the Mythic and Merethic Era (If this was Morrowind I am sure there would have been 30 topics to discuss with Paarthrunax).
-The nature of Akatosh/Auriel and Alduin
-and so on and so forth...

These question didn't have to be answered but lore regarding them would have been quite entertaining (Morrowind doesn't answer a lot but it does raise many questions).

As for praising Skyrim...I did. That's what the last paragraph is about. I can't start praising extra stuff because almost all of what it attempts has been done better before. I did say at the beginning that it's a good game that deserves it's success.

I addressed that later too in my discussion. I understand it was a lot to read, but it was there where it stated that the conversations in Morrowind weren't much different than Daggerfall, where everyone says the same thing. That wasn't a good thing. By the same token, conversations have gone too far in the other direction, like skills and stats. Less is better in some cases, but almost completely stripping it out of the game is ludicrous.

... which is a commen excuse for doing obvious evil deeds, be it in movies, literature or games. "They may loathe us, but we're needed" or "If we wouldn't do it, someone else would". Yes, something like this is missing in Skyrim. I don't see that as a problem with modular writing, but more on how players perceive this specific part of the game and obviously, the guys at Bethesda saw that different and not as important than you do. :)
I would agree with you if there's been some kind of doubt among the DB in past games about their "work", but nothing comes to mind right now. So yeah, they are a murderous bunch and are not only aware but proud of it, regardless of if or how they justify it.

You forgot one keypoint which makes TES games as standing out as they are compared with others: You can play through up to that point, WITHOUT having access to even one dragon shout / being Dragonborn. All you have to do is to avoid talking with the Jarl in Whiterun / killing the first dragon. Same with Dragonborn: no cultist showing up until you went to the Grey Beards for the first time.
Which is why I dislike Dawnguard that much. You can't delay / avoid the vampire attacks. They always start at a specific point (lvl8). It's the first time that I remember, where I'm more or less forced to pursue a questline without an option to avoid it.

There isn't much lore about it, as dragons are been seen as a thing of the distant past (we're talking about more than 4000 years). Even the Mages guild has more interest in nordic ruins, than in dragons (which could have improved the MG questline significantly, at least in my book) despite the Grey Beards being around the corner and all the dragon molds around....

Who exactly should tell you more about them or solve a few of your questions? The only option would be Paarthurnax which is younger than Alduin. Heck, even Alduin may not know the answers you demand here - last time I checked, one isn't born with the knowledge of the meaning of life and everything - not even dragons.

I do agree that they could (and should) have added more topics to discuss with Paarthurnax about the past, what happened and what he experienced. However, about none of your questions, and the fact that Alduin being (temporarily) gone, didn't turned Paarthurnax into a free-roaming wanderer exploring - for good reasons.

That's still not an excuse exactly. There should have been dialog choices based on your previous actions. Realistically how many people do you think reached that point in the storyline without doing any of the main quest (both options should have been considered). A favorite example of mine of a game doing this is In Vampire the Masquerade:Bloodlines. If you play a Gangrel and you max out your discipline, Beckett (one of the mentors that offers to teach you a level in these for free during the endgame notes that you have far surpassed his expectations). That's the kind of attention to detail I am talking about.

One of the things that ticked me off the most was the fact that all these ruins of the pre-literate Nords are filled to the brim with ruined books, it makes no sense....and sometimes they even have modern books in there. Or another one is that the Red-something (I forgot his name), a forsworn hero is buried in a Nord mound AND is a draugr. The forsworn are a different race and culture, they should have their own unique burial mounds.

It's the small things that matter but heh, I think we will reach an impasse where we will agree to disagree and I don't want to dominate this thread with just the two of us arguing. All in all, I really do consider Skyrim a good game (not great, not exceptional, not in my top 10...but good nonetheless).

Fair enough, there should have been a different dialogue.
As for your attention to detail example in Vampire Bloodlines: ever tried to get the first and / or the second whirlwind sprint shout before talking to the Grey Beards? Or reaching Solstheim before being Dragonborn? .... I'd guess not, as the game is full of such details that actually work, but approximately 99.9% of the "depth of a puddle" critics seemed to have missed. ;)

The burned books in ancient ruins again made sense for me and I can only somewhat agree on the modern books in there. One could probably find ruins where that's the case, but for the majority we can't assume that we're the first one to ever enter them.
And you're wrong on the [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Forsworn]forsworn[/url]. They were formed in 4E 176 - only [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Fourth_Era#4E_176]25 years[/url] before the events in Skyrim.

I have no problem with agreeing to disagree and certainly don't want to change your point of view. But mostly I found it (not directed towards you, but in general) way to easy criticizing the critics.

Edit: almost forgot it - you're aware that you can actually go against the Dark Brotherhood and help destroying it, right?