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deathknight1728: I find that usually what will happen is that there will be some things I like about the game, but other things that just bring the games down. Most of the problems I have with the good old game rpgs is that they are either not very fun or Ive seen better elsewhere.
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Psyringe: Those are very unspecific complaints. All games are good at some things, and bad at others. Baldur's Gate for example (which you cite as an example of a game that you like) works well as a traditional RPG, but totally fails at pulling off an original storyline. (I feel incredibly bored each time I try to get into BG, and I tried it quite often.) Arcanum (the other game you mentioned) succeeds in creating an original setting, but fails in being stable, and polished and in luring players in.

Like these, other RPGs have good and bad aspects as well. It seems that you are focusing so much on the bad aspects that they keep you from enjoying the games. There are two ways of dealing with this: Either take (and enjoy) the games for what they are, or ask yourself why you are focusing on the negatives so much once you discovered them. Perhaps a part of you is not wanting you to play?
I find I might be in a similar boat. I have purchased the following games through recommendations-

"Arx Fatalis, Fallout 1, Vampire the Masquerade, Divine Divinity and Warlords Battlecry"

I find that Arx Fatalis has bugs and crashes on me, Fallout 1 has guns extremely overpowered and melee is useless (to top it off, there's a timer which is lame), Divine Divinity has EXTREMELY slow running speed, and Warlords Battlecry is just terrible.

I really wouldn't recommend any of these games to anyone to save the frustration.
Post edited October 08, 2012 by theonlyone
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Tiefood: Morrowind.. Why do people say its good? Its not.. the world is nice.. But the game play sucks.. stealth is nonexistent and its just not fun... its bad not good.. horrible.. boring.. retarded...shitty... I cant tell you enough of how much I hate it.. the worst part is that I bought it 3 fucking times... Once on the pc (retail copy) Once for the Original Xbox and the last on steam.. If you go on the bethsoft forums.. every single person on the TeS section are Morrowind worshipers.. They would even go so far as to call it the fallout 2 of The elder scrolls.. I do not see the resemblance as Fallout 2 was a good game..
WELL THAT'S JUST LIKE, YOUR OPINION MAAAN.
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Starmaker: TL;DR: RPGs fundamentally suck. A lot of them are fun and entertaining, but the platform does not support serious stories and never will.
It seems your only gripe with RPGs is the illusion of free choice they give (not sure if this is true in every case), in contrast to adventure games where the protagonist's views are usually fixed. Why exactly does this mean they do not support serious stories? It would do so if the free development of the player character was the core point of the whole story, but I do not agree this is always the case (I haven't played PS:T yet, so I can't comment on that particular example). I can easily accept some things about the protagonist without every detail being spelled out beforehand.
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Starmaker: ....
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Fenixp: Adventures support serious storytelling. Huh. Except vast majority of adventure games use exactly zero of potential that videogame storytelling has - player involvement.
90% of everything sucks.

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Fenixp: RPGs are not perfect in this department, but at the very least they're trying, and they're more and more successful at creating a coherent story.
They are good at "hero simulation" - essentially, wish-fulfillment. There's nothing wrong with wish-fulfillment.

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Fenixp: What adventure games do is what movies and books have done before them, and thus not really interesting in any way whatsoever by itself.
Counterexample: Spider and Web.

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Fenixp: And... Yeah, you've pulled 'letting an orc live' example. If you think it's stupid, why don't you kill him? I'm fairly sure I could come up with quite a few examples of stupid storytelling in adventure games, but guess what - in those, there was no other option to pick.
That's not an example of specifically an RPG or for that matter an adventure. It is an intentionally Godwin-like example of a stupid plot contrivance which can be encountered in any genre. In a create-your-own-character RPG, every action that you are forced to take because whatever it is that you want to do is not supported is character-breaking, even those that other players, or you playing another character, would gladly take. In an adventure game (or in an RPG with a defined protagonist), it takes dev stupidity of this caliber to break character. Every action Geralt would not do is Geralt being his principled and/or unimaginative self. No action TNO would not do can be explained from an in-game perspective. The Witcher games have enough flaws, but they do not have this particular flaw of PS:T.
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Starmaker: ...
... which is partly a technical limitation and partly outdated RPG design. The genre is young and already doing quite well for it's age, you have yourself given examples of the Witcher games, but there is more. Then there's TES games, which you just can't blame for breaking a character since you only do what you want to (and they DO have a good story, it's just put so it doesn't break any character. Quite an achievement.) But I digress, that's an topic for itself. My point is: When kinetoscope showed sneeze to people for the first time, I'm quite sure they weren't exactly conviced of films being capable of serious storytelling either :-P
snip
Post edited October 08, 2012 by Tiefood
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SpooferJahk: I love Morrowind myself, but I can see how you hate it since at one point I got it and hated it when I initially tried it. It wasn't until sometime earlier this year I gave it a shot and got used to how it worked to see it as a good game. It is one of those games where it takes a lot of patience and possibly some trial and error to get it just right, at least that I see it as.
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Tiefood: I would totally beat it if the damn view distance was higher.. The fog ruins it all!
Isn't there a way to change that? Do not have a PC copy to try to back up my claim here...
Post edited October 08, 2012 by SpooferJahk
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Tiefood: I would totally beat it if the damn view distance was higher.. The fog ruins it all!
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SpooferJahk: Isn't there a way to change that? Do not have a PC copy to try to back up my claim here...
There is.. But its a tedious thing to do.. requires mods and the such.. Once I got the view distance up and then needed to get the render distance to be increased.. Then i needed distant LOD and the list goes on.. I really did like some off Morrowinds features.. like Deadric being very very very very rare and the Unique weapons were cool too.
Post edited October 08, 2012 by Tiefood
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SpooferJahk: Isn't there a way to change that? Do not have a PC copy to try to back up my claim here...
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Tiefood: There is.. But its a tedious thing to do.. requires mods and the such.. Once I got the view distance up and then needed to get the render distance to be increased.. Then i needed distant LOD and the list goes on.. I really did like some off Morrowinds features.. like Deadric being very very very very rare and the Unique weapons were cool too.
The world was pretty cool too, probably my favorite Elder Scrolls game to explore. Either way I think it is a good game but I disagree with it being as good as Fallout 2 like the Morrowind fans you mentioned said. Morrowind has a fair share of problems and the combat system is definitely one of them.
not reading all 6 pages on this .... has anyone mentioned Divine Divinity?

It's probably the most unique (in context to GOGs RPG stable) RPG I have seen here; it's like an Ultima Game built out of Diablo 2's engine.

either that or Lands of Lore 2; the rest are OK, but #2 is comparable to Morrowind in my book (just keep in mind that it per-dated morrowind by nearly 6 years, so visually it is closer to a high quality Daggerfall and while it is rather free roaming it is not open world.)
Darklands, Realms of Arkania 2 and Wizardry 7 are my favorite "older RPG's".

I'd say my favorite "newer RPG's" are Fallout, Planescape and Arcanum.

I think they are all absolutely brilliant, but for the "older" one's you will definetely need a pdf of the manual to play them correctly. Newer one's don't need you to read the manual, all information is essentially in the game.
Post edited October 08, 2012 by Crosmando
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Tiefood: There is.. But its a tedious thing to do.. requires mods and the such..
It requires one mod. And it's newest version's got a wizard that takes you step by step trough the process. Or you can just use this, it's fully automated and updates the graphics completely.
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Zolgar: So, you get out of the underground tunnels and are thrown in to the world.. and are somehow expected to, as a random focking ex-con decide to follow your "destiny" and go jump in to portals and kill demon thingys.
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Fenixp: Actually, you're not, that's the point. If you decide to ignore the main storyline, it's just going to stay out of the way and the game doesn't remind you that you should be a hero at all. Uriel Septim's visions were wrong. Done. Skyrim on the other hand keeps pounding your head with "help us! help me! we've got a problem! oh you're a random outsider, help me!" It's horrible, you're a hero even if you're playing a non-fighting alchemist.
*spoiler*
Besides, even when you finish the main storyline of Oblivion, Martin is the hero, not you. He's the one who ends the invasion, not you. If it weren't for you, some sort of replacement or another solution would probably turn up, you're not the one who is essential for finishing the storyline.
Guess what? Your spoiler makes Oblivion even worse. Hmm.. >.>
I think I'mma start a new thread..
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Zolgar: Guess what? Your spoiler makes Oblivion even worse. Hmm.. >.>
You're complaining that Oblivion makes you an undeniable hero and when I say that it actually doesn't, it's even worse. Well that was an unexpected turn of events!
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Zolgar: Guess what? Your spoiler makes Oblivion even worse. Hmm.. >.>
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Fenixp: You're complaining that Oblivion makes you an undeniable hero and when I say that it actually doesn't, it's even worse. Well that was an unexpected turn of events!
Actually no, I was complaining that Oblivion expects you to randomly become a hero even though you're a nobody ex-con who just happened to be put in the wrong cell.

It becomes worse because, if you so choose to follow that path and become the Big Damn Hero, you're .. not.