The GoG license also prohibits the distribution of mods (See below), yet GoG has forum topics devoted to the selection and installation of mods. Similarly Beamdog has a whole section of its forum devoted to mods and how to install them.

As Cuv, one of the developers of the original and now BGEE and a veteran modder points out on the BGEE forum: "... Mods by definition modify game files which is and has always been a violation of the EULA that each player accepts when purchasing a game or other software. This has never been enforced by the IP holders due to the game's popularity. Modders have been allowed to create content and distribute for the games for free and taking responsibility for the content on themselves...."

SOFTWARE USE LIMITATIONS AND LIMITED LICENSE (GoG)
GENERAL PRODUCT LICENSE. This copy of Baldur's Gate II:Throne of Bhaal (the Software) is intended solely for your personal noncommercial home entertainment use. You may not decompile, reverse engineer, or disassemble the Software, except as permitted by law. Interplay Entertainment Corp. and Bioware Corp. retain all right, title and interest in the Software including all intellectual property rights embodied therein and derivatives thereof. The Software, ncluding, without limitation, all code, data structures, characters, images, sounds, text, screens, game play, derivative works and all other elements of the Software may not be copied, resold, rented, leased, distributed (electronically or otherwise), used on pay-per-play, coin-op or other for-charge basis, or for any commercial purpose. Any permissions granted herein are provided on a temporary basis and can be withdrawn by Interplay Entertainment Corp. at any time. All rights not expressly granted are reserved.

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So, no need to talk about "arrogance" or make misleading claims that BGEE is "nothing more than a mod of the original game." BGEE includes a major overhaul of the Infinity Engine.

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P.S. This discussion has clearly reached diminishing returns.
No need to respond further to hyperbolic and/or self-contradictory statements of "fact".
Anyone who needs to make an informed choice as to which version to buy now has been provided enough actual evidence in numerous posts.

Dress it up all you like, but the fact is that BG:EE is nothing more than a makeover of Baldur's Gate, just like any other mega mod like BGT/TuTu. It is that and a platform/OS compatibility update, nothing more: there is nothing new or original in it as far as the end user is concerned.

Speaking from experience here, ignore the naysayers.
Yes BGEE is a huge freaking disappointment, they didn't improve the graphics, they didn't fix or improve nearly as much, etc etc.
Most early bugginess was mostly due to atari backstabbing them and releasing an alpha build falsely labeled as final on steam (and then pointing at the fine print allowing them to do so). However, even ignoring that the version beamdog released was still too buggy and should have been playtested more.

That being said, the bugs were resolved. So right now BGEE is the best choice.

The BG engine is extremely hostile to mods, it is very very easy to irrevocably corrupt your game such that your saves are irrevocably useless and your game has to be reinstalled from scratch.
The more mods, the more likely it is to happen. It is a hugely modded game, but that is DESPITE the engine's hostility not thanks to the engine being mod friendly.
I encountered several mod bugs in my last playthrough and they weren't even compatibility issues, just straight up bugs that would happen on a game that contains nothing BUT that mod. Some have been fixed, others have a hotfix... but to apply that you have to start a new game, if you don't you will corrupt your game.
The bottom line is, the more mods, the mods likely your game is to be broken.

BGEE - Integrates the equivalent of 6 mods (bugfix, UI, font, resolution, tutu, I forgot what the 6th one was). Also includes some bugfixes that couldn't be done without access to source code, and a rare few improvements. Most of the work was done on porting it to ipad, which is bull. But it HAS actually been improved a little for the PC. People focus on the bad and unfairly discount all improvements, treat any highly subjective claim such as "movies were replaced with ugly looking slideshows" or "font looks uglier" as highly suspect, as personally I found every such change to have been a large improvement.
They also unhardcoded some things making it easier to make mods, and have replaced the awful default AI scripts with better ones.
There are also many minor improvements such as Loading/saving went from taking 2 seconds to 0.01 seconds, the UI looks better, there are now color coded circles under allies, Journal is better, ability to zoom, etc etc.
It is worth mentioning that every single mod I have ever wanted to play has been made fully compatible with BGEE. And that you WANT to install mods since no changes were made to the core game, at all, whatsoever. I highly recommend tweakpack

BGT - This sounded like the best idea to me, but after playing it I have to say it is a huge mistake.
By combining BG1 and BG2 you are forced to mix mods that are specific to each game, doing so drastically increases your overall mod count and introduces instability. When (not if) you find yourself dissatisfied with the changes of some mods which sounded good on paper, you lose out on the chance to modify your mod loadout on the BG1 to BG2 transition.
The "continuity" it provides between BG1 and BG2 is almost nonexistant, if you chunked (killed and destroyed the body so it cannot be resurrected) an NPC in BG1 they will be alive again in BG2 just like in the traditional seperate games. The only thing that transfers over is NPC XP level (in case you use an XP uncapped and it was higher than in BG1) which you can easily award with a simple console command. I highly recommend recreating your character for BG2. either via console or save editing.

BGTuTu - If you don't want/have BGEE, then this is the way to play BG1.

PS. if you are using BGT, BGTuTu, or BG2 (Not designed or tested for BGEE; although it might work) here is where you can find a much better AI script which I wrote:
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/362043/

Personally I wouldn't be so cross with the BGEE (and I could ignore it in peace) if it wasn't for the majority of the active modders that so readily embraced it. Most of them are in Beamdog's payroll nowdays it seems, so they actually have an extra incentive to update their mods with EE exclusive features and leave the original with older versions that contain bugs that have nothing to do with the new features.
So why don't you buy the "enhanced" version, I hear you say.
Because, see, I already bought BG twice already, once when it was new and once again here in GOG. Why should I shell out for a 3rd time to support a downgrade in content (all new content is amateurish at best), improved graphics by blurring the shit out of everything and nonsensical UI changes for the worse (the new color-scheme is ugly and the bloat in item descriptions is intelligence insulting). Let alone the fuckload of new bugs that prompts a new section in the G3Fixpack for BGEE only... Get that: 3rd party fixes for the actively supported enhanced edition!

Furthermore the argument of convenience is rather moot. The only part of the installation for the first timer that might be a bit daunting is the choices. Do you want that part or not? If yes pick a flavor.
BGEE takes away the choice and people call it convenience! What the fuck? In what world is that good?
I can only imagine it will get worse when SCS will be incorporated in BG2EE. The mod with probably the most choice of all. Choices that affect gameplay significantly, not cosmetic preferences.

Now admittedly there are a few changes that seem desirable. Instant save/load is a good one. Externalization of hardcoded stuff is not bad either. A few others here and there. But between less choice, new bugs and shit content the pros seem rather trivial in comparison.
If only there was a way to keep those and discard the rest. Then maybe I would give it a thought... Maybe...

Case in point. I personally think it looks better than the original.

PS. I haven't played the "new content" (new NPCs and the arena) and don't intend to, it is simply not a selling point for me.
But to call it amateurish is a bit funny considering how BG1 NPCs were completely silent and never said a single word in the entire game after their initial recruitment dialog.
And how in BG2 they were simply awfully written (the aerie romance looks to have been written by a 10 year old and are an insult to the players and their intelligence). BGEE doesn't integrate any mods that modify the game, and as such you are not actually missing out on any choices.
The choices occur in mods that were NOT integrated, like the tweakpack. Which are the same for BGT, BGEE, and BGTuTu

I agree that the convenience argument was made by some clueless "gaming news reporters" and has been parroted pointlessly. It isn't more convenient... its more SAFE from game corrupt due to mod overload.

The post you refer to merely points out that the claim or implication that BGEE is different from the GoG offering because the former doesn't allow mods is false.

As for the question, no, you don't hear me say that. I don't care which version people buy or whether they buy one or not.

I simply responded to the OP -- who seems to be on the fence about which to buy -- not you, saying: "Right now, if you like a heavily modded game, the clear choice is Tutu or BigWorld or whatever. If not, BGEE is an excellent choice with a lot of potential." The OP now has plenty of information to weigh in making his decision.

Diminishing returns -- I rest my case.

Well, of course I wasn't comparing BGEE companions with the original BG1 NPCs since, as you said, are mostly silent. I was comparing with mods such as BG1NPC project and other (companion or bander) fan made mods. And even then Beamdog manages to fall short on several occasions. Truly sad. Please note, I'm not claiming the fan made ones are perfect, or even good in most cases. All I'm saying is that if someone is charging for his work, it is judged accordingly.

As for BG2 companions, while admittedly they are not dripping creative brilliance, they do manage to pull a few stings to make things entertaining, in the very least.

G3Fixpack and 1PP both give several options to the user. They don't have a core component only.

Yea, sure. But then again nothing guarantees playability if you overload BGEE with (compatible) mods, too.

You were right to point that out, as pcamagna has said several times in the past, there are many legitimate reasons to criticize BGEE, there's absolutely no need to add false ones on top. But...

Please... don't take the holier than thou approach in order to make a point. It is insulting to others and makes you look like a fool.
I was referring to "you" as the hypothetical anybody that might argue something similar. In fact the "why don't you buy it" has been said many times before, even from Beamdog people themselves. It comes down to that argument more often than you (Curmudgeon60) might think and I find it annoying since the downsides of BGEE, I think, are rather glaring.

Finally the main point I was trying to make was this. Even if someone doesn't care about BGEE and is perfectly happy with BG1+2+mods, they might have to reconsider down the line if all the modders adopt BGEE features only.
And that, my friend, I find disappointing.


Edit: Sorry about the double post, but I think separating them helps in readability.

Fair enough argument, I misunderstood.
I am personally not overly familiar with those fan made ones and cannot make the comparison myself.

True, while a little more safe it is not actually completely safe. You can still easily break the game and corrupt your saves.

If someone's added a new section to my Fixpack I really wish they would have told me. :) I will say that I've had to fix GOG-exclusive bugs for IWD, though, so there's that.

There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding here of the relationship of modders with EE. And yes, in the interests of full disclosure and in case you didn't know this already: I am a paid EE developer.

I volunteered and was working on the EE engine before I started getting paid. If you've ever worked on the Infinity Engine, it's a horribly opaque, arbitrary mistress that resists you at every turn (and this is doubly so if you're trying to fix bugs). So many of us jumped on it since it was a chance to finally get the engine in order to allow for us to do some things we have never been able to do with the game. I would happily be doing the same work on EE I do now, for free--this is something I've spoken openly about with the full-time BeamDog staff and they still choose to pay me. The other modders on the staff have expressed similar thoughts.

I've seen the same question referenced openly and obliquely here and elsewhere--why? Why would I (or others) give so much unpaid time to a project. It's telling that these questions are never asked by modders.

If this wasn't a hobby--a passionate, OCD-inducing, crazy love hobby, but a hobby nonetheless--we would never have been modders to begin with. I've already spent a couple thousand hours working on improving IE games for free because I care about and love them. It's not for the fame or the groupies; that someone is willing to pay me to express what I was already going to do is (from my POV) crazy.

I find the idea that I'd stop supporting the original games confusing. My modding time remains my own; my pay does not change if EE sells one hundred or one million copies. My incentive to mod the original game remains exactly what it was before: because I enjoy the challenge, because I enjoy seeing my creativity expressed, because I enjoy collaborating with talented people, because of the coke-fueled orgies with groupies, and because I love the game (I may have made up one of those reasons).

There will be EE-exclusive mod content, yes. BG2 Tweaks is going to have some EE-exclusive components simply because these are things that can be done in the Enhanced Edition that can't be done on the original games. If there are mods that end up exclusive to EE, it's because modders--paid or otherwise--have been afforded the opportunity to contribute fixes and changes to the engine that were hitherto impossible.

I've said on several occasions that folks who never buy the Enhanced Editions will still reap benefits. The next version of Fixpack will incorporate many bugfixes identified and fixed by the QA process; we've also identified additional content for both the BG and BGII Unfinished Business mods.

There's always the possibility for me to have misunderstood what I saw, but even after looking at it for the nth time I still can't make any other meaning to the some EE stuff. In any case that wasn't my main beef with the game. Just a side dish of irony, that it seems I'm probably wrong about.

What do you mean? You don't really love the game? Inconceivable!

Let me make myself clear. I sincerely believe that all the modders that are contracted by Beamdog deserve every single penny you get. And I would understand why you'd do it even for free. After so many years of painstakingly fiddling with the IE you finally have a chance to fix the problem at its core. I see you point clearly!

If EE would consist of exe fixes, bug fixing and universally accepted improvements (f.e. 1PP) as well as better modern day OS compatibility and native widescreen support, I could see myself buying it for $10 (current price without new content if I'm not mistaken?).
But there is a side to the project that I really dislike, changes that I consider clearly for the worse and I can't bring myself to support.
So I hope you understand why I'm not so thrilled to see most modders either as straight up developers or considering BGEE as the latest official version of the game that everyone must have. This will eventually make every mod that's worth it's salt require BGEE and let's be honest, vanilla BG doesn't really cut it after the millionth time modless.

Those are original BG2 bugs found by EE's QA process (including a game-breaker) that are fixed in EE. That was my running list of EE fixes that I need to add to BG2 Fixpack, but at a certain point I gave up trying to maintain the thread because there are so many.
I generally stay out of these EE vs. original threads, mainly because there are legit reasons for preferring both and it typically boils down to individual preferences and opinion. I only pop in when I see something wrong--i.e. EE fixes in Fixpack, when it's actually EE feeding Fixpack--and the bit about modders not supporting the original games.

One of the tech support folks actually brought up this issue in our chat channel. The reaction from the modders was universal--bafflement as to why would we ever drop support for the original games. Yes, there is going to be some EE-exclusive content, but it's going to be because there are some things we just can't do on the original games.

You're like Batman (at least when you're not currently busy with coke-fueled orgies with groupies*).

* This would explain the slow progress on EE patches ;)

Ah so I got it backwards then. My mistake then.

It's good to know your intentions, just remains to be seen how practical that will be. If it's more trouble than it's worth I couldn't really blame a modder for dropping support of either version.

In any case thank you for exhaustingly explaining all that and of course thanks once more for all your work for BG fans everywhere. :)

Well, it might interest you that I torrented the EE and erased it because I thought it was crap.