Some thoughts on the wagons and people and such.

My understanding is we are not quite at LYLO. 3 scum, 5 town, but no nightkill means we get two shots at this.


I re-read cat, and while I don't like her push on Fark, I can understand the OMGUS, and at the end of the day I think I still land on the opinion that if she's this active and reacting this much and directing traffic as scum, I'll just be more impressed than anything else. I wouldn't mind being fooled like that. I can't stand slank scum, so I don't mind too much if I have to lose, losing to high-effort scum. But... yeah, I think I still just don't see it. Her position on the first wagon was in the first slot, which isn't alignment indicative. On the 2nd wagon, her vote made sense. Crossing cat off my suspect list. For now, at least.

scene/Flock - Scene read pretty pure before whatever disaster kept him away. (His last post was about pain and medicine, so hope he's ok.) His vote Day 1 was off the yeet wagon, and he didn't vote Day 2. Flock has had a really good entrance. Not much to glean from the votes (or lack thereof), and both players in this slot read ok to me, so crossing Flock off the list as well.



(to be continued throughout the day as I have time here and there)

(hopefully)

Sorry Farky? SORRY FARKY?

Well you said it yourself, many suspected he was actually Town, me included, for reasons that did make sense, and there was also zero guarantee that this Phase would start with Farky piling up a wagon, but alas, it was the destined wagon of the day even though we could've done better.

Is this some sort of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario? Cause it sounds like it is~

So the previous phase I said I'd rather go with scene, only to be told he's inactive (will get to that point later), there's another wagon that has a chance to succeed, and not voting is the scummy thing to do. I went ahead and made it clear "sure, you do make sense here, I'm playing a traditional game and it's nice to let me know this isn't a traditional game", so I put down the vote.

I still lean scum for my reluctance, though!? Which now we've just established that it wasn't misplaced. I had a strong feeling I'd be voting out a Catholic, and guess what, we did vote out a Catholic. Now we're at 5 to 3, pretty damn worrying stuff, all thanks to a not well thought out wagon IMO.



It's not voting out Farky (Catholic) that makes them scum happy, it's the fact the game as a whole is everyone just coasting and hoping we somehow pile votes on scum with little to no scumhunting. It sure must hit different for them, the game being slow and easy like that.



Sure, I concede. I saw "One" at the beginning of the roles list in the OP and thought "ah yes one-shot".

You seem to forget something, and I've just a little bit of a feeling that forgetting what I'm about to reference now just so happens to be very convenient in a way.

Scene wasn't inactive.

Catventurer went hard on Farky on D1 for wanting to investigate A_Future_Pilot, which honestly, yes, she's right about that, AFP made zero posts during the whole game, and Farky couldn't wait to eject him.

Meanwhile, supplementscene has made quite a few posts before he disappeared (hope he's alright). One of these posts is him taking something I said and responding to it in a context different than the one I had clearly meant it to be read in. As if it's some easy way to shade me without having to do any "pretend scumhunting". And even if scene was inactive during Phase 2, his "seat number" has made posts prior, and if his "seat number" was scum when he was active, it'll still be scum when he is inactive. Farky wanted to vote an inactive player out for providing zero content, I wanted to vote an inactive player out for the content that they DID PROVIDE!

If we assume Catventurer is just some sort of program that makes choices based on pre-defined variables, and not a human being capable of making decisions by taking into account billions of complex factors or by straight up just being unpredictable, then it's no surprise she didn't provide much of a comment on my 257 - because it's not the same situation at all. It may look like it if you toss all the nuance out the window though, which is a very scum thing to do I believe.

You know who else has Scene's "seat number"? Hmm, yes.

Vote FlockeSchnee

Welcome back to GOG Forum Mafia, it's been a while!

You make good points. But I'm not trying to frame you or anything it's just that I have 7 players with unknown alignment and 4 town seats and 3 scum seats to put them in. Purely based on what I gleaned from the thread and without any skilled scumhunting (which is something I simply can't do, because I'm really not the brightest candle on the cake) I placed cat, trent and yogs already on town seats (while yogs is still not quite sitting down in the seat but hovering, thinking about maybe he'd rather hop over to the other side) that leaves you, bucktooth, flocke and joppo with 3 quarters of a chance to be scum, thus leaning scum. well, some more some less. With flocke and you having an omgus match now, let's see how this works out. And I'll see what yogs is going to do. Lot's of moving parts you see.
This is just to explain, that I'm not trying to put you into some "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario. I'm going with the gut thing that more skillful players seem to have and I'm just trying to copy. You just didn't grab one of the townseats yet. And as much as I like all of the players here, there's only 4 townseats out there from my perspective. Can't have everyone leaning town. Simply can't.
And yes, I know that I'll be quite red in the face when after the game, I re-read this and the scumteam was cat, trent and yogs. But what can you do?

Ones who trying too hard also appear more scummy to a number of players, speaking generally I mean.


Look at the name the troll mentions and see if that helps.

Suddenly Cardinal Down, who had been comatose for a while, becomes active again and that triggers quite some discussions. Perhaps now the Conclave can work out, who is who and whom to elect.

ELECTION:
Trent North 2 - mchack 269 and self
All others are self-electing


INVESTIGATION
Pooka 1 - Flocke 273
Flocke 1 - Pooka 302
Joppo 1 - mchack 269
Cat 1 - bucktooth 285

Not voting: Trent, yogs, joppo, cat

Please tell any errors you find to go away. If they don't, please report them to me so that I can modkill them!

I think we need to forget about any further investigations and just elect Trent.

Town isn't down two people. We down four. A normal game would have 1:4 ratio where one person out of every four people is scum-aligned. We started out with 3:10, meaning town side was shorted two players before the game started. A more balanced game would have either waited for two more players to join or had only given the scum side two players. In addition to the ratio odds being in their favor, they have day chat. I think they've also been intentionally inactive and posting just enough to not be modkilled. I think that trying to investigate is just a loosing strategy.

We need to push for an election.

Nobody can give a good reason or even any reason to say that Trent isn't town-aligned. It is for this reason that absolutely everyone should cast their ELECT for him.

Welcome back indeed. :-)
No convenient or inconvenient forgetting whatsoever. I never said scene was inactive the whole time. (Since I don’t have a „link“ (hope, he is ok) or anything to him, I have amnesia about the intentions of that kerfuffle you two had. I don’t know, why he seemingly misinterpreted your reply.)
You can „nuance“ it all you want, he was either gonna be replaced or modkilled and therefore a misplaced investigation vote at the time.

Why didn't you place a vote on Day 2? You got on, didn't like the Farky wagon because you thought he was Town but also didn't offer any alternatives, and then that was it. Enough to look like you are helping, but really not. I think a really concerned Townie would have voted someone else if they truly felt the current lead wagon was a bad one.


Vote joppo

I can give you a good reason that no one should elect me, I am one of the main reasons Farky was lynched, and he was being read as Town by several people (and I think some knew), yet I wouldn't listen. I was pushing for him from Day 1, and picked apart some posts of his that made him look bad, it made him the focus, and I was wrong about him. You can't elect someone that did that, there's still too much of a chance I am scum because there is no way to clear me.

I do agree with you though in that I think scum are floating by trying to let Town self implode.

Agree on both points. Trent seemed likely townie to me after I messaged them and they dropping their vote on me. And election might be a boon to townies as well since another townie has a good chance of being removed if another investigation is done.

EBWOP
I would like everyone's thoughts on the bit I replied to below please!

Ok this is very LAMIST, like mister scum Trent saying 'don't elect me, no don't do it!' to get elected. I still feeling in my gut you're townie though so I will hope and pray and advocating for your popedom. Huzzah!

Vote joppo

giving my cat his fluids, hard to type - back in 30,om+

*sigh*, not at all what my intent was. I was simply trying to point out no one is going to get elected, because no matter how much you think someone is Town there is always reasons to doubt this. If you can not clear someone in game you can never say they are Town.

And those reasons are also part of why I lean you townie. Thus we should be electing you. Huzzah!?

No. You are 100% Town. I can just feel your Townness. You'll notice that I haven't been tossing around my ELECT like some people have been. It's because I have been withholding it all this time until I could give it to someone that I felt certain is as Town as myself.

Also I think that once this game is over, anyone that checks the scum chat threat is going to find that scum team wasn't nearly so inactive in scum chat. This is just a speculation on my part.