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FairyFoliage: I see a discussion arose, but I'm fairly young. I'm 27. Most of older titles I played later, too, especially Baldur's Gate.
Still sorry for derailing the thread but ya if you want some suggestions for games JRPGS to start not many are on G.O.G if looking at Franchises of them but enough seeing as they are a time sink in general do to how they are made Also if you like Dungeon crawler games I would suggest the following ''Mary Skelter: Nightmares'' though best get it on sale I would say given the content level in it some might not see it worth the price .. Anyway its fitting for the month of October

another game would recommend as its kinda like Wizardry 1-5 had been remastered and with a JRPG coat of paint ''Wizardry: Labyrinth of Lost Souls''

I would suggest if you want a Final Fantasty like game ''Fell Seal: Arbiter's Mark'' its got a JRPG turn based vibe going on with it
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FairyFoliage: I see a discussion arose, but I'm fairly young. I'm 27. Most of older titles I played later, too, especially Baldur's Gate.
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BanditKeith2: Still sorry for derailing the thread but ya if you want some suggestions for games JRPGS to start not many are on G.O.G if looking at Franchises of them but enough seeing as they are a time sink in general do to how they are made Also if you like Dungeon crawler games I would suggest the following ''Mary Skelter: Nightmares'' though best get it on sale I would say given the content level in it some might not see it worth the price .. Anyway its fitting for the month of October

another game would recommend as its kinda like Wizardry 1-5 had been remastered and with a JRPG coat of paint ''Wizardry: Labyrinth of Lost Souls''

I would suggest if you want a Final Fantasty like game ''Fell Seal: Arbiter's Mark'' its got a JRPG turn based vibe going on with it
Also, for dungeon crawlers, consider:
* Elminage Gothic (quite good, but very hard)
* Saviors of Sapphire Wings (an easier entry, but it comes with the more difficult Stranger of Sword City Revisited)
* The Bard's Tale Trilogy (not Japanese-made, but one (actually three) of the early games of this genre

Fell Seal isn't like the main Final Fantasy games; it's an SRPG that's very similar to Final Fantasy Tactics.
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BanditKeith2: Still sorry for derailing the thread but ya if you want some suggestions for games JRPGS to start not many are on G.O.G if looking at Franchises of them but enough seeing as they are a time sink in general do to how they are made Also if you like Dungeon crawler games I would suggest the following ''Mary Skelter: Nightmares'' though best get it on sale I would say given the content level in it some might not see it worth the price .. Anyway its fitting for the month of October

another game would recommend as its kinda like Wizardry 1-5 had been remastered and with a JRPG coat of paint ''Wizardry: Labyrinth of Lost Souls''

I would suggest if you want a Final Fantasty like game ''Fell Seal: Arbiter's Mark'' its got a JRPG turn based vibe going on with it
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dtgreene: Also, for dungeon crawlers, consider:
* Elminage Gothic (quite good, but very hard)
* Saviors of Sapphire Wings (an easier entry, but it comes with the more difficult Stranger of Sword City Revisited)
* The Bard's Tale Trilogy (not Japanese-made, but one (actually three) of the early games of this genre

Fell Seal isn't like the main Final Fantasy games; it's an SRPG that's very similar to Final Fantasy Tactics.
Ah yes I forgot to suggest the first one ...

second game have yet to get well its more like two in one given my understanding its a remaster that put two games into one package as with my gaming backlog waiting for the price to drop to 45 to 50 percent to pick up as while the price is fair for 20 games as is .. I am not interested in paying close to full price when I have on G.O.G a huge gaming backlog that keeps growing from sales

The Bard's Tale Trilogy Ah yes a fun set of games I should have thought of those

And thats true on Fell Seal

Now for the op .. Well if you like humor that might offend some folks I can suggest for action Shadow Warriors Redux for a remaster of the action shooter (its basically Eastern Duke Nukem ) and the 2013 reboot Shadow warriors aswell as the second game in the reboot

I might also suggest the varies '''Saints Row'' games on here too

And well while its on midweek sale might aswell suggest ''Sleeping Dogs'' as its a fun open world game thats sorta like GTA with Martial arts and for about 3 dollars USD its well worth the price
Also another JRPG series would suggest is the Ys series of games granted they have switched up genres but thats to be expected its one of the longest running game ips I am aware of so the genres the game has done has shifted every so often with the time nothing much but still noticeable
Post edited October 08, 2021 by BanditKeith2
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BanditKeith2: Also another JRPG series would suggest is the Ys series of games granted they have switched up genres but thats to be expected its one of the longest running game ips I am aware of so the genres the game has done has shifted every so often with the time nothing much but still noticeable
I consider the Ys games to be action games.

If you're looking for an acting game with a few mechanics borrowed from the RPG genre, they're great.

If you're looking for an RPG, however, then look elsewhere.
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BanditKeith2: Also another JRPG series would suggest is the Ys series of games granted they have switched up genres but thats to be expected its one of the longest running game ips I am aware of so the genres the game has done has shifted every so often with the time nothing much but still noticeable
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dtgreene: I consider the Ys games to be action games.

If you're looking for an acting game with a few mechanics borrowed from the RPG genre, they're great.

If you're looking for an RPG, however, then look elsewhere.
Thats fair still they are classed atleast for technical reasons a JRPG .. But ya if looking for a strait JRPG or RPG then no they'd not fit the bill

I'd also say if looking for wacky JRPG stuff ''AKIBA'S TRIP: Undead & Undressed'' and I believe its the first game I ever seen on here with literally the tag JRPG on it.. But ya I can swear the JRPG tag is a newer tag as looking games I bought on here before didn't used to have a JRPG tag now they do weird

Side note I'd suggest the ''Agarest'' games too aswell
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BanditKeith2: Thats fair still they are classed atleast for technical reasons a JRPG ..
The way I define RPG, the Ys games do not qualify in any way. In particular, whether your attack hits or misses in a Ys game is based on player skill, not character skill, and that's enough to disqualify the game.

Also, compare an Ys boss fight to a typical RPG boss fights. In an RPG boss fight, the battle focuses on the player deciding what to do, when to heal, what support abilities (and stats effects, when they actually work on bosses, which isn't as common as it should be) to use. In an Ys game, however, boss fights are focused around dodging the enemy's attacks (in real time) and finding an opening to attack. Completely different battle style, and different enough that it's definitely not the same genre.
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BanditKeith2: I'd also say if looking for wacky JRPG stuff ''AKIBA'S TRIP: Undead & Undressed'' and I believe its the first game I ever seen on here with literally the tag JRPG on it.. But ya I can swear the JRPG tag is a newer tag as looking games I bought on here before didn't used to have a JRPG tag now they do weird
There's plenty of incorrectly tagged games here. For example, Elminage Gothic is tagged as "Action", and it definitely is not an action game.
Post edited October 08, 2021 by dtgreene
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BanditKeith2: Thats fair still they are classed atleast for technical reasons a JRPG ..
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dtgreene: The way I define RPG, the Ys games do not qualify in any way. In particular, whether your attack hits or misses in a Ys game is based on player skill, not character skill, and that's enough to disqualify the game.

Also, compare an Ys boss fight to a typical RPG boss fights. In an RPG boss fight, the battle focuses on the player deciding what to do, when to heal, what support abilities (and stats effects, when they actually work on bosses, which isn't as common as it should be) to use. In an Ys game, however, boss fights are focused around dodging the enemy's attacks (in real time) and finding an opening to attack. Completely different battle style, and different enough that it's definitely not the same genre.
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BanditKeith2: I'd also say if looking for wacky JRPG stuff ''AKIBA'S TRIP: Undead & Undressed'' and I believe its the first game I ever seen on here with literally the tag JRPG on it.. But ya I can swear the JRPG tag is a newer tag as looking games I bought on here before didn't used to have a JRPG tag now they do weird
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dtgreene: There's plenty of incorrectly tagged games here. For example, Elminage Gothic is tagged as "Action", and it definitely is not an action game.
Thats your personal definition and/or defining factors for what is or isn't.. Granted game genre terms and what is classed as what has been watered down over the years so odds are thats why so many disagree what does and doesn't not constitute specific game genres and types at this point as I can say I have noticed in gaming that eroding/watering down of terms quite abit ..even more so the last 10 to 15 years in fact compared to before then
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dtgreene: There's plenty of incorrectly tagged games here. For example, Elminage Gothic is tagged as "Action", and it definitely is not an action game.
That is true most game storefronts has that problem too just I think G.O.G has the most correct in labeled games in terms of genre but I might be mistaken
Post edited October 08, 2021 by BanditKeith2
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dtgreene: There's issues that make the 6502 not well suitable to languages like C, like the fact that you can only use 8-bit offsets in array indexing. This, for example, means that pointers, commonly used in C (and behind the hood in OOP languages and LISP dialects), give poor performance if they can be implemented at all.

I also note that you didn't have dynamic linking on microcomputers back then, so executable files just had the call addresses hard-coded. Also, note that the 6502 doesn't have an indirect call instruction, so you had to use work-arounds like pushing the address you want to call onto the stack, and then executing an RTS instruction (to "return" to the new routine). Or you use self-modifying code.

Speaking of the stack, you only get 256 bytes of stack space on the 6502, and that's not enough to comfortably handle C code. (In assembly, you can get around this by using the registers and zero-page to store short-term variables, but that doesn't work so well in C, and it doesn't work well with recursion.)
and that you have so few very small registers, passing data via registers doesn't really work well either. Probably have to just reserve a couple numbers on the zeropage for C stack (end and current) and use that insteadgiving you as much C stack space as you want leaving the 'normal' stack for call/ret probably.

But yes a number of tricks wouldn't work. x86 tends to make BP the base stackframe pointer, a lot more overhead work would be needed. Indirection of function calls would not be recommended.

I did see some C compilers for 6502 and the like but it seemed more like a subset. Though you can still do a lot with just a subset.
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rtcvb32: I did see some C compilers for 6502 and the like but it seemed more like a subset. Though you can still do a lot with just a subset.
You can do a lot with a 6502. Just look at what Iwata-San did. A lot of things thought impossible to do on the Famicom/NES.
I'm new here too. Technically I had an account about 10 years that I only made to get the Fallout games and others for free, but I was young and jobless then, and all my old online stuff is abandoned. Now after a heaping helping of jaded cynicism that is aging, I've finally rediscovered GOG and spent cash-money on games this time. Helps that most of these games are so cheap when on sale. I'm sure you'll find something that suits you.
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BanditKeith2: Also if you like Dungeon crawler games I would suggest the following ''Mary Skelter: Nightmares'' though best get it on sale I would say given the content level in it some might not see it worth the price
I'm a bit suspicious to talk about Mary Skelter (over 210 hours across most releases of the franchise), but I do quite recommend the game. My favorite RPG franchise also available on GOG.

Something to note: even though it has a console exclusive canon prequel (Mary Skelter 2) and sequel (Mary Skelter Finale), the plot of the original title was retconed a bit in the PS4 & Switch releases to fit the other 2 games, while the PC/PS Vita release gives the impression of being pretty stand-alone, so playing the PC/Vita version gives you a full experience.

And the difficulty of the original game for the PS4/Switch release was revamped to nightmarish (pun intended), so even if you want to play the newer releases, you may want to play the PC/Vita version at least to get an idea of how the game works.

On a side note, I still need to play Mary Skelter Finale, but console games are so expensive in my country... T-T
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rtcvb32: I did see some C compilers for 6502 and the like but it seemed more like a subset. Though you can still do a lot with just a subset.
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Darvond: You can do a lot with a 6502. Just look at what Iwata-San did. A lot of things thought impossible to do on the Famicom/NES.
You only need a handful of instructions to do just about everything, it just depends on how complex the instructions are.

The bigger issues are coming to how to do function calling or the stack, which may be too shallow for most uses.
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rtcvb32: The bigger issues are coming to how to do function calling or the stack, which may be too shallow for most uses.
The idea is to use a software stack, which is slower than a hardware stack.

An indirect call can be done as follows:
1. Push the address of END onto the stack. This takes 4 instructions, 2 for each byte of the address.
2. Push the function pointer onto the stack. (2 instructions, maybe 3, per byte, so 4-6 instructions.)
3. Execute the RTS instruction, which will "return" to the address just pushed onto the stack.
END. This is the next part of the code, that it will return to.

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rtcvb32: You only need a handful of instructions to do just about everything, it just depends on how complex the instructions are.
Strictly speaking, on a Turing-complete CPU, which the 6502 is (as are the Z80 and 8086, as well as most CPUs you're likely to encounter, except maybe some (mostly older) GPUs) can, with a way of accessing enough extra memory, emulate any other Turing-complete (or even incomplete) CPU out there.

You could, for example, emulate a system with an Intel® Core™ i9-11900KB Processor (24M Cache, up to 4.90 GHz), and 128GB RAM with just a 6502 (or Z80) and enough storage space; it will just be really slow (unusibly slow, in fact). Add a GPU to the emulated machine, and you can still emulate it; it will just still be really slow, perhaps even more so.
Post edited October 09, 2021 by dtgreene
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dtgreene: The idea is to use a software stack, which is slower than a hardware stack.

An indirect call can be done as follows:
1. Push the address of END onto the stack. This takes 4 instructions, 2 for each byte of the address.
2. Push the function pointer onto the stack. (2 instructions, maybe 3, per byte, so 4-6 instructions.)
3. Execute the RTS instruction, which will "return" to the address just pushed onto the stack.
END. This is the next part of the code, that it will return to.
I'm sure the C compilers for the 6502 computers did this. Not sure about cross compilers, though i'm sure some toolkits would have compensated for this.

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dtgreene: Strictly speaking, on a Turing-complete CPU, which the 6502 is (as are the Z80 and 8086, as well as most CPUs you're likely to encounter, except maybe some (mostly older) GPUs) can, with a way of accessing enough extra memory, emulate any other Turing-complete (or even incomplete) CPU out there.

You could, for example, emulate a system with an Intel® Core™ i9-11900KB Processor (24M Cache, up to 4.90 GHz), and 128GB RAM with just a 6502 (or Z80) and enough storage space; it will just be really slow (unusibly slow, in fact). Add a GPU to the emulated machine, and you can still emulate it; it will just still be really slow, perhaps even more so.
Yeah, reminds me of 8-bit-guy talking about the Gigatron that had only 8 instructions, but ran an emulated set to give you 34 instructions, enough to impliment BASIC on.
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dtgreene: First of all, why are you only saying high to the guys?
I think you are showing your age there, as guys these days seems to mean everyone.

That said, I am no spring chicken either, and with a title like 'Hello Guys' and a name like 'FairyFoliage' I was half expecting this thread to be somewhat Gay ... not that it matters of course.

Anyway, welcome 'FairyFoliage', and enjoy the many great goodies here. :)

I'm more of a first person shooter gamer myself, though I do like a bit of everything and some variety now and then.

Until I was introduced to Quake, I thought video games were for kids. From Quake I went backwards for a while (Doom, Wolfenstein 3D etc). From 2009 to 2017 I either only played a few N64 games or watched my kids play all sorts of games on various consoles. From May 2017 onwards, the gamer in me awoke again, thanks in no small part to GOG.

Prior to Quake, I'd only ever dabbled rarely in some mostly text based games on the Apple IIE computer or a bit of pong etc on some very basic console ... and of course a few machines in Gaming Arcades (racing games, space invaders, etc).