You can simply name the devils, the cold war superpowers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet%E2%80%93Afghan_War

Afghanistan was on his way to be a Democratic Republic but alas things like proxy wars happened.

Iran had a similiar faith, but there the Democratic leader was overthrown because he wanted to tax the British for the Oil they stole from the iranian people after screwing them over after the World Wars.

The whole "Muslim-World" is still in tribal-structures because everytime they wanted to become "legit" and democratic, either communist or capitalist superpowers came in and basicly ruined the whole party for everyone, leading people into the hands of religious extremists who fed on all the chaos and made a profit

Didn't know. I don't really watch Bill Maher much other than for commentary on specific issues like that.

This is where I disagree. Islam hasn't really received reformations and is still a very fundamentalist religion that promotes acts like jihad.

An example would be the phenomenon of Islamic vehicle attack. These are usually falsely reported on about how the attacker 'wasn't a true Muslim'. What they either fail to grasp or are deliberately misleading on is that Islam can be a very scary religion. Not even the best of Muslims, Muhammad for example, were guaranteed a place in heaven. Imagine you haven't been the best adherent to your religion. You've partied, drunk, and fornicated. As you get older you start reflecting on your actions. Many religions have 'outs' for bad behavior. Confessing sins and so on. With Islam "When it comes to being assured of entering paradise, it's the Super Lotto. We have no guarantee of winning, we just hedge our bets by buying a lot of tickets.". One of the only guaranteed tickets to paradise is death as a martyr.

Again... NOT ALL MUSLIMS... but the religion has SERIOUS issues that need to be addressed. Until they are it would be wise for western nations to be more cautious when allowing Islamic immigration. Again, not because they're freaking brown, but because of the religion.

This is true, but I was referring to the establishment of the British and French Mandates by The League Of Nations, hence "world powers".

Indeed, "Jihad" has proven to be a very useful proxy for those sitting at the Grand Chessboard.

Islam hasn't seen that kind of major reformation the way Christianity has.
But the whole "being accepted into paradise" thing is basicly the same in all 3 Religions based on the same origin-teachings.
The concept of being "absolved of your sins" through confession and/or indulgences was only introduced through the catholic church to gain followers and money selling said indulgences.

According to the raw Christian text itself, an absolute guarantee is only provided to martyrs.
But Christians in historic events tended to interpret that word differently then the 21th century fundamentalist would.
The problem is not with the act of martyrdom, the problem lies within the interpretation of it.
To die for once's beliefs does not mean to do drag alot of innocent bystanders with you.
Martyrdom is historicly spoken more the act of "getting executed because the religion isn't the main thing in the state right now and the old world didn't exactly liked the idea of monotheism and the preaching of it"

Islam in the Middle ages was way more liberal and progressive then Christianity back then.
Now things look like they have turned around but that does not mean that the religion itself is to blame.

Yeah the British and French Mandates kinda set the stage for a lot of trouble the world has today.
It's the same in Africa although a few more nations were involved there (including Nations that rarely do anything at all like the Belgians)

All you're really describing is asymmetric warfare and primitive behaviors consistent with tribalism. Christians in those places are indistinguishable aside from the differences re dogma.

Which reminds me that the Vietcong used Suicide Bombers, as well as the Japanes Imperial Forces during WWII.
And they weren't exactly doing it for their religion. Heck, they weren't even on the same side when it comes to political beliefs.
One of those sides beliefed in the ideology that ALL Religion is just a way to control the masses and should be abolished and persecuted.
And they still blew themselves and others up.

People will always find excuses to do that.

The problem in our modern times isn't Japanese Imperial forces or Vietcong suicide bombers... its Islamic ones. Solutions are needed, not excuses and especially not sticking heads in the sand hoping the problem will go away. The understanding of WHY is important and can hopefully lead to solutions.

So I ask... why do people like you immediately point to other parts of history instead of concerning yourself with the here and now? Is it a feeling that pointing out issues is seen as 'hateful' in some fashion? I don't frankly get it.


I'm attempting to explain one of the issues we're seeing now in western society where a secular Muslim suddenly ups and kills in the name of Allah. Do Christians do things like this? Sure but at a rate that isn't remotely comparable in quantity or scope to Islamic extremist. It goes back to teachings and the lack of reformations. I'm not advocating for the forceful removal of those with Islamic beliefs... I'm advocating being very careful/selective about letting MORE in.

When you have a leak in a house the first step is to STOP the leak, THEN repair the interior damage. Any other order to stopping or repairing the damage is not logical.

Most Christians live in relatively modern societies, and the source of the damage you're referring to are the policies of our corrupt gov't. Yes, it's a messy situation, but I'm far more concerned about our warmongering "adventurism" and the militarization of our police dept's than I am about a small number of Muslims going postal.

...which applies just as firmly and just as conclusively to American Christianity as it does to Islam.

Wow. This discussion is still ongoing and has turned to bashing religion. How we got to religion from drug dealers is amazing. Not interested in the logic. I'm just really disappointed in all of you.

The amazing thing is that we didn't go there through the "opiate of the masses" road. Maybe it'll be the path back to the OP.

Somewhere on page 3 people were pushing open border idiocy from there which led to the hot button topic of mass Islamic immigration.

Also, I have nothing against religion, other than extremism that can come from it... but extremism can come from many things... including politics.

As for your 'disappointment'... no one cares.

I don't believe there are any liberals on the Left. Liberalism is traditionally closer to the Right.

wait
oops

nvm
screwed that up.

I need a vacation from this place. :P

Really? Perhaps us Americans view it as being left. Either way I've gained more respect for 'true liberals' during recent political insanity that has gripped the country.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=if-za0Lu7tI