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General discussion (archive)Nearly half of all video-gamers are women(256 posts)(256 posts)
(256 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted August 11, 2013
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Vestin: .

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gamefreak1972: ...keep in mind she was in a "safe" place, talking to friends, not waxing poetic online about her love for Gothic.
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Vestin: I kept thinking about this... What WOULD be an unsafe place? Is it only the Internet? Who would the hostility be coming from - other women or men?
As another anecdote - my ex-roommate's attractiveness at a party went from "kinda ugly" to "center of attention" once she mentioned playing Starcraft... No definite info on how drunk everyone involved was, but (as far as I've heard) the reactions were unanimously positive.
Hell - maybe it has something to do with the iron curtain?

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StingingVelvet: Though honestly even that is a question, isn't it? Once you accept gender roles are social constructs you begin to debate when that is bad and when it is good.
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Vestin: Unless one falls into depths of "anthropological relativism", at which point there is no longer any overarching "good" or "bad", and if a given society is into some particular form of mutilation or persecution, that's just "the way they are" and it would be unjust to try and deprive them of their heritage ;P.
On the other hand - "cultural universals", I've heard, are a dirty word...

Meanwhile: Jenny Haniver.
Safety can be a lot of things, a lot of places, and in some places it's only a perception. In this particular instance, the girl is talking to 2 friends about Gothic on a college campus. In her mind at least, she was in a place where who she was and what she was doing was ok. What if that scenario had ended differently? What if someone (male or female, doesn't matter) had approached her and belittled her for a hobby she loves, then told her she was a waste of space and needs to get a husband and children to make her life "worth living"? Regardless of her immediate response, I bet you that conversation out in the open would never happen again...

Interesting response to your ex roommate, it would have been interesting to see anyway. If I had to guess, I would bet that she isn't bad looking at all, perhaps average, but perhaps socially awkward. Talking about something you are enthusiastic about changes a lot of people's perceptions of in an instant - I think we've all seen it where someone talks about something or someone they love and their face just "lights up" - and like magic they are more interesting, more attractive.

Women can be just as hostile as men can, even towards other women. I remember woman being very upset with her daughter for being employed as a security guard, because "1) she's keeping a man from having that job and being able to support his family", and 2) "Women just don't have jobs like that!" It didn't matter that the daughter was good at what she did (she was her universities first female security guard), or that she was happy at that job; it was all irrelevant in the face of "women shouldn't DO that!" Would all women be happy in that job, or feel safe walking a college campus at night? No, but this one wanted to do it, and was good at it, stereotypes be damned. Gender roles may be a social construct, but does that make them RIGHT?
Posted August 11, 2013
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langurmonkey: I've been to Sweden many times. I love Sweden. Last time I was there was over 4 years ago though. All the Swedish girls I talked to, weren't very geek like so this could be a new thing in Sweden. These girls were around my age so today, they'd all be 27, 28, 29. I wish I could move to Sweden. I'd even be willing to do janitor work if it means living in Sweden.
That's around my age as well.
Problem is that it is a bit more common for geeks to be introverts, so as an outsider, they are not always all that easy to spot.
Posted August 11, 2013
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gamefreak1972: the girl is talking to 2 friends about Gothic on a college campus. In her mind at least, she was in a place where who she was and what she was doing was ok. What if that scenario had ended differently? What if someone (male or female, doesn't matter) had approached her and belittled her for a hobby she loves, then told her she was a waste of space and needs to get a husband and children to make her life "worth living"?
First of all - I can hardly envision such a thing; Hostility (if any) and hubris usually evaporate during freshman years, turning into intellectual humility sometime into the sophomore year.
Regardless - I can fairly easily imagine "what if": I would've walked over there and strongly objected to such narrow-mindedness, silently appreciating the convenient excuse to get to know the girl better.

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gamefreak1972: Regardless of her immediate response, I bet you that conversation out in the open would never happen again...
Negative. That only works under the assumption that the majority is either against a given thing or indifferent to its criticism. If such an outburst had happened, it's the rude individual that would've probably never attempted it again ;P.
Have faith, people are neither that frail nor cruel.

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gamefreak1972: If I had to guess, I would bet that she isn't bad looking at all, perhaps average, but perhaps socially awkward.
Your guess is pretty accurate: flat-chested, lazy-eyed, poor taste in makeup, 6ft tall, fond of combat boots, shy as hell...
In my defense - I've seen plenty of significantly prettier girls before and since... Also - being a roommate can be kinda desensitizing ;P.

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gamefreak1972: Talking about something you are enthusiastic about changes a lot of people's perceptions of in an instant - I think we've all seen it where someone talks about something or someone they love and their face just "lights up" - and like magic they are more interesting, more attractive.
Yeah, I like to call this "Sagittarian beauty" - it's all in the smile, the motion, the gestures and... "joie de vivre".
Then again - I'm fairly certain the novelty of her even mentioning the game as a conversation piece was enough to spark attention.

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gamefreak1972: Women can be just as hostile as men can
I've spent most of my life among women, I can confirm this observation... Although they do tend to be more gentle towards men ;P.

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gamefreak1972: I remember woman being very upset with her daughter for being employed as a security guard, because "1) she's keeping a man from having that job and being able to support his family", and 2) "Women just don't have jobs like that!"
That's nothing: my grandma used to criticize my mom for carrying AN MP3 PLAYER everywhere; it's allegedly "unbecoming" and not "acting her age".

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gamefreak1972: Gender roles may be a social construct, but does that make them RIGHT?
Of course it doesn't. Fortunately - having been constructed in the first place, it means is that they can be CHANGED.
Posted August 11, 2013
A funny thing that came to mind is that in 2012´s E3 ( I think it was the 2012 one ) there was a girl promoting a website where basicly you could hire a girl as a gamer partner for a specific amount of time.
A girl could make an account there, put what games she was able to play and her schedule.

That was something.................uhmm....kinda...........funny.
Posted August 11, 2013
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Profanity: How about the fact that women being 31% of gamers is a big deal? Are you saying they were hiding, silently playing games all these years and only now everyone noticed?
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gamefreak1972: Actually, while I wouldn't use the word "hiding" - this is exactly true. Women have been about a third of gamers...not recently, not the past few years...but for the past few DECADES - since the 1970s when it all started. Its only a big deal because for some reason someone decided to pay attention and came up with numbers they weren't expecting - and that someone happened to have a media tie.

For those of us who have been paying attention, this is not news. In fact, this is most decidedly "olds" :p And that 50% number probably does come from the "casuals" who play Farmville or Angry Birds or Words with Friends exclusively. So, 30-40% you could call a "real" gamer, and 10-20% "casual" out of the women demographic. Does that make any insecure people here feel better, knowing that the numbers they didn't know about previously haven't changed much over the years?
Oh hey, I accidentally hit the feminism button.

Anyway, this just circles back to the unspecificness of the article. There's so much conjecture in this thread, including mine which I somehow tried to base on logic. All the questions could be easily answered if they just say how many play what games and on what devices, it's that simple, then we'd know for sure what's really up. Now you write all these numbers again, as many other people, and I'm supposed to believe these ones?

1) Obviously the women in your example know what's up. Everyone knows that there are women who are just as much as gamers as men. Both this answer and question mean nothing. I can create an opposite example, that would mean nothing either.

2) Verbal online abuse is expected because loads of gamers are immature as fuck. You're not gonna speed up their maturity, so the only thing women can do on this point is realize that just as not all women are casuals - not all gamer dudes are dicks or white knights. Especially now that gaming is a cool thing to do. And the current most popular "feminism" (yeah, the non quotation mark feminism is long gone from the mainstream society) like to concern itself with games, it wants and sometimes does censor creative process. People can not like stuff, they can say why they're against it, but when they start fucking with how the game is being made with the threat of a PR tsunami of bandwagoning shitholes - then I have problem. I have nothing against real feminism where women are actually being opressed (middle east would be an example), I have something against the ones that think equality means dominance on their part.

3) Of course you'd do something about it, but what's the point of this question? Are you trying to pull some sort of weird move where if they think this is bad they should suddenly agree with you on other points or they're bad people? All kinds of people get nasty remarks, not only women.

EDIT: my gremmer is brkn
Post edited August 11, 2013 by Profanity
Posted August 12, 2013
Hey guys and gals, older female here and mother to a gamer guy in his 20's - and well I'm not a hard-core gamer chick but let's put that aside for a second. I'm a human being as are all of you. Stereotyping, categorizing, pigeon-holing or whatever label the media or big business uses does NOT take away our basic humanity. Right?

We all feel real feelings, we all long to connect, we all love to play and recreate in many forms. We enjoy pleasure whether that comes from food, drink, entertainment or other human beings. Right?

So why are you having this argument? Who the eff really cares whether more males love FPS and females love casual puzzle games except those with a reason to gain our hard earned cash? Right?

Ultimately I don't give a crap that games use female genres that might not reflect the full range of being female. IT IS A GAME...srsly. Those that take exception need to go live in countries where women do NOT have any semblance of freedom and take their swords and words into action helping real, live women instead of tilting at windmills in the gaming industry.

But that being said, I have actually encountered misogyny and been paid less, been treated as less, been promoted less as a result of being female through-out my work career. So while I recognize that my personal battles are real and valid, I also recognize that many, many women have it far worse than I do. Gah, my friend in the middle-east - I don't even like to think of the daily oppression she faces - and oh my dear lord, she faces it cheerfully even as she tries to change it and daily risks her life to do the work she feels she was called to do as a human being...

When, when, when are we going to let go of our genetic conditioning that kept us alive millennium ago with tribal affiliation and evolve into a global community of human beings that accept that EVERY single "person" has value to our community?

When are we going to unstop our ears and simply listen to another human being's point without judgment, without recrimination, without a filter of country, color, sex?

I, as a mother, as a female, as a human being ask each of you goglodytes to stop for a minute each time someone posts a comment and ask yourself how you'd respond if you personally had said that comment - take it to heart, see it from that viewpoint, hear it's message and then and only then, respond. Imagine the person posting was you - how would you like to be responded to?

We're each of us human beings at the end of this line -it may be an ephemeral connection but it is very effing real and each of us is very real... consider that when you post, consider that when you go to work and have to dictate to others, consider that when you eat a meal in a restaurant with someone serving you, consider that when you drive your car on the road, consider that....it's you you are treating and acting towards...human, fellow human. All other considerations fall aside in that equation....

soapbox free (so sayeth the Momo ;-p)
Posted August 12, 2013
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Darling_Jimmy: You can be sure publishers have the statistics about individual games (largely through online accounts now) but it would be foolish to equate that data with gender based genre bias.
Those are examples. You're not stupid enough to not realize that.

I want to know the kinds of games women play and the percentages involved so we can make clear decisions based on that date, not assume they are only playing facebook games (or not only playing facebook games). Whether or not they play Skyrim is an example, not the actual question.
Posted August 12, 2013
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Brasas: Likewise your example of a specific game does not prove anything. Even if you're right and V:B would be different (not to your taste), how can you be sure there would be nothing else done for your tastes?
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langurmonkey: I'm sure because people want to make as much money as possible so it would be more profitable to make a game that the 1 million male gamers can enjoy and the 2 million female gamers can enjoy. Why make a game that only caters the 1/3? So males will be missing out on games that cater to them which means they will be missing on games that they can really enjoy. My fear is not groundless. This kind of shit already happened to movies and TV shows.
Ok, thanks for that.

To your first point, not everyone caters to the mass market - niche game producers exist today, and will continue to exist tomorrow. Do you really think half of the population (males) will not be targeted by producers, even as a niche?

As to the last. We have to disagree on movies and TV shows. I agree that soap operas or morning talk shows are (were? I don't watch tv anymore to be honest...) catering to stay at home women. But you even have specific channels with a male oriented preference (action, sports...).

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langurmonkey: I've never met an American geek girl that knows Gothic 1... I've been to Poland. All the girls I encountered, didn't speak English and I only knew several words of Polish. It's hard to impress a woman without speaking her language. :( Beautiful country(the land) but a lot of buildings there are ugly, no offense. If I wasn't so lucky in Szczecin, I'd probably be trapped and homeless in Poland right now...a funny story for you, I bet.
You'll have a hard time learning polish, sure, but... Szczecin? Really?
NW is somewhat more Germany and Scandinavian oriented than rest of Poland. Wroclaw, Krakow, Warsaw would be much better options to find english speakers/jobs. Even Lodz or Poznan.
I speak from experience ... YMMV
Post edited August 12, 2013 by Brasas
Posted August 12, 2013
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Darling_Jimmy: You can be sure publishers have the statistics about individual games (largely through online accounts now) but it would be foolish to equate that data with gender based genre bias.
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StingingVelvet: Those are examples. You're not stupid enough to not realize that.

I want to know the kinds of games women play and the percentages involved so we can make clear decisions based on that date, not assume they are only playing facebook games (or not only playing facebook games). Whether or not they play Skyrim is an example, not the actual question.
I have a link for you. It doesn't include all of the percentages one might like, though.
Posted August 12, 2013
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BadDecissions: I have a link for you. It doesn't include all of the percentages one might like, though.
Credibility of this report looks bad if you compare this report's "over 70% of male gamers are PC gamers" to games sales data.
Posted August 12, 2013
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Profanity: 2) Verbal online abuse is expected because loads of gamers are immature as fuck.
I've easily fixed that situation by not purchasing a headset as well as not purchasing online only games. XD

I don't know about anyone else but whenever singled-out to play an online game with someone, when it's just as easy to find players randomly and already playing, I sometimes suspect that either the person inviting me is with efforts to sniff out whether or not I am also gay ( which im not and I have nothing against gay people before anyone goes ape shit) or they want me on their specific server because they're looking to pinpoint my exact IP address for future whimsical sociopathic adventures.
Post edited August 12, 2013 by carnival73
Posted August 12, 2013
Threads like these always make the claim that nearly all female "gamers" play nothing but The Sims. I've come across maybe a dozen of female gamers, but I've known only two who have played The Sims, among other things.

I think female gamers are more "invisible" because in my experience, it's not a social experience for most of them in the same way it is for guys. Gaming is something they usually do alone in their down time. It's not something they usually talk about with people. I've found that when I start to talk about my gaming, other women do join the discussion and there's a surprising number of them who play at least something. Quite a lot spend hours every week playing exactly the same games as guys do. They just don't necessarily consider it a "hobby" any more than watching tv.
Posted August 12, 2013
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Momo1991: Hey guys and gals, older female here and mother to a gamer guy in his 20's - and well I'm not a hard-core gamer chick but let's put that aside for a second. I'm a human being as are all of you. Stereotyping, categorizing, pigeon-holing or whatever label the media or big business uses does NOT take away our basic humanity. Right?

We all feel real feelings, we all long to connect, we all love to play and recreate in many forms. We enjoy pleasure whether that comes from food, drink, entertainment or other human beings. Right?

So why are you having this argument? Who the eff really cares whether more males love FPS and females love casual puzzle games except those with a reason to gain our hard earned cash? Right?

Ultimately I don't give a crap that games use female genres that might not reflect the full range of being female. IT IS A GAME...srsly. Those that take exception need to go live in countries where women do NOT have any semblance of freedom and take their swords and words into action helping real, live women instead of tilting at windmills in the gaming industry.

But that being said, I have actually encountered misogyny and been paid less, been treated as less, been promoted less as a result of being female through-out my work career. So while I recognize that my personal battles are real and valid, I also recognize that many, many women have it far worse than I do. Gah, my friend in the middle-east - I don't even like to think of the daily oppression she faces - and oh my dear lord, she faces it cheerfully even as she tries to change it and daily risks her life to do the work she feels she was called to do as a human being...

When, when, when are we going to let go of our genetic conditioning that kept us alive millennium ago with tribal affiliation and evolve into a global community of human beings that accept that EVERY single "person" has value to our community?

When are we going to unstop our ears and simply listen to another human being's point without judgment, without recrimination, without a filter of country, color, sex?

I, as a mother, as a female, as a human being ask each of you goglodytes to stop for a minute each time someone posts a comment and ask yourself how you'd respond if you personally had said that comment - take it to heart, see it from that viewpoint, hear it's message and then and only then, respond. Imagine the person posting was you - how would you like to be responded to?

We're each of us human beings at the end of this line -it may be an ephemeral connection but it is very effing real and each of us is very real... consider that when you post, consider that when you go to work and have to dictate to others, consider that when you eat a meal in a restaurant with someone serving you, consider that when you drive your car on the road, consider that....it's you you are treating and acting towards...human, fellow human. All other considerations fall aside in that equation....

soapbox free (so sayeth the Momo ;-p)
I am really glad you posted this. That was very well said. I wrote a much longer reply here and then thought better of it and deleted it all. You already covered it better.
Posted August 12, 2013
I think people have the tendency of overevaluating the importance of gender. Despite the differences we are all human beings and have much more things in common than differences.
Posted August 12, 2013
I am a bit annoyed by this kind of surveys, in how they have data.
If it was a poll, I could find it at least interesting (if I wasn't aware of the fact that "99% of gamers are male" wasn't true even a single day).
But... I wonder about personal privacy in that case. How did they collect data?
Personally, I don't care about this kind of "social demographics" based on gender, ethnicity, opinions, manner how to pee between 22:00 and 3:00 if the moon don't prevent from seeing Jupiter the 6th day of a hypothetical ecumenical calendar agreed by Fox Mulder...

When are we going to stop accepting surveys like that, because we want to prove "men are 'more' gamers than women" or "women are 'more' gamers than women" or "men and women are equally gamers"? Especially when "Big Data" are collected whitout our knowledge (I'm targeting social medias considering social games)?

Men play games.
Women play games.
Cool. And so what?
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)Nearly half of all video-gamers are women(256 posts)(256 posts)
(256 posts)