It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
avatar
Orryyrro: Fair enough, but Jewish-Christianity was going on beforehand, with what would be very similar although less focus on the birth and more on his acts, as quite frankly, the birth of Christ is really very unimportant.

This is true. However the fact remains we know nothing of Jesus other than what the Council of Nicaea decided we should know. The fact there are other deities that had almost identical creations brings the whole thing into doubt. If the Pope would release the truth thats buried in the vatican vaults it may actually gain more followers, Instead we have a Nazi in charge of the catholic church, a fact Raiders of the Lost Ark told us annoys God.
Post edited May 29, 2010 by Delixe
avatar
Orryyrro: It may be worth noting that Jesus was actually born in the summer, and Christianity actually pre-dates Mithras, as it sprung up around 80 CE.
avatar
Delixe: Mithras does not pre-date The Council of Nicaea and thats where modern day Christianity began.

Nice putting in the word Modern - Christianity started with Christ, the Apostles, and his disciples.
avatar
Lou: Nice putting in the word Modern - Christianity started with Christ, the Apostles, and his disciples.

Modern day Christianity began at the Council of Nicaea. Thats a simple fact. It's where Slavery was added to the Bible. Other Gospels are rumored to have been destroyed.
avatar
Lou: Nice putting in the word Modern - Christianity started with Christ, the Apostles, and his disciples.
avatar
Delixe: Modern day Christianity began at the Council of Nicaea. Thats a simple fact. It's where Slavery was added to the Bible. Other Gospels are rumored to have been destroyed.

Once again I beg to differ Modern Catholicism but not Christianity. Look at the end of Acts 11:26 "And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch." Christianity was well under way loong before Constantine Politicized it.
avatar
Lou: Once again I beg to differ Modern Catholicism but not Christianity. Look at the end of Acts 11:26 "And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch." Christianity was well under way loong before Constantine Politicized it.

That made it in. What was cut out?
avatar
Lou: Once again I beg to differ Modern Catholicism but not Christianity. Look at the end of Acts 11:26 "And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch." Christianity was well under way loong before Constantine Politicized it.
avatar
Delixe: That made it in. What was cut out?

Absolutely nothing. Unless of course you put your trust in man and not God. God gave us his word and said he would preserve it. That settles it for me. But a discussion on the inerancy of the word is beyond our current discussion. Christianity did not start in 323 (?) it started with Christ.
avatar
Lou: Absolutely nothing. Unless of course you put your trust in man and not God. God gave us his word and said he would preserve it. That settles it for me. But a discussion on the inerancy of the word is beyond our current discussion. Christianity did not start in 323 (?) it started with Christ.

Yes but MAN has been writing the Bible. The Council of Nicaea decided what Gospels would go into it. They also decided to fiddle with things.
avatar
Lou: Absolutely nothing. Unless of course you put your trust in man and not God. God gave us his word and said he would preserve it. That settles it for me. But a discussion on the inerancy of the word is beyond our current discussion. Christianity did not start in 323 (?) it started with Christ.
avatar
Delixe: Yes but MAN has been writing the Bible. The Council of Nicaea decided what Gospels would go into it. They also decided to fiddle with things.

God wrote the Bible - using man as an instrument: I Peter 1
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
avatar
Navagon: Jesus asked people to pray in private, calling all those who prayed in public places (like temples, churches...) hypocrites. Doesn't that fact alone render all forms of organised religion unchristian?

Jesus did not say anything against praying in temples. He called hypocrites people who “showed off” their faith in public but did not follow God's Laws in their lives. He did say however:
“I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything for which they are to pray, it shall be granted to them by my heavenly Father.
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.”
avatar
Krypsyn: My main point is that I don't think Catholicism can be called Christianity anymore, it has been too perverted. I am not saying that Catholics, or any other sect for that matter, are bad people, I am merely saying that I don't think they should be called Christian. Catholics are something else entirely, for better or for worse.

I have witnessed all sorts of accusations and insults because of my faith,
avatar
Orryyrro: misguided

and I still do :P, but denying me the right to call myself a Christian is something new. How refreshing :P.
The Catholic Church does not reject any Commandments. There wouldn't be a whole chapter about Them in the Catechism otherwise.
By praying to Saints you are not making them equal to God. You are just asking them for prayer in your case – every prayer to a saint has that sentence in one form another: “Pray for us”. And what is wrong in exposing the people who were living examples of how a man could follow God's Teachings in their lives? They were living signposts to a perfect life – a proof that anyone can be saint.
I never understood why people are always trying to find differences instead of finding what is in common. If anyone calls themselves Christian, then I am in no position to judge on whether they can do so or not. I would appreciate if others did the same.
I am a Catholic.
I am a Christian.
And I’m proud of it.
avatar
Delixe: Yes but MAN has been writing the Bible.

Man influenced by the Holy Spirit. It's anyone's choice whether they decide to accept this as Truth or not.
Post edited May 30, 2010 by Paradoks
avatar
Paradoks: He did say however:
“I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything for which they are to pray, it shall be granted to them by my heavenly Father.
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

I see you left out the whole moving mountains bit. Wise choice, but unfortunately I'm already aware of it. :P Given that nobody is actually able to do that, does that mean there aren't any actual believers left in the world?
avatar
Lou: God gave us his word and said he would preserve it.

The Bible was in the hands of a cult that sold absolution for any possible crime including rape of the virgin Mary for about 1400 years. Covering up for paedophiles is comparatively minor compared to the body of their crimes. They were far closer to Satanists than devout Christians.
So, aside from the fact that we know beyond all doubt that the Bible has been altered, do you really think that God would leave the Bible in such hands for so long?
avatar
Krypsyn: ...
1. Firstly, we're not talking about stories of God's global activities here. We're talking about aesthetic changes (including the fact that graven images of God depicting him as Zeus were not only permissible but commissioned by the Church) and changes to the story of Jesus' life, including his childhood and resurrection (Mithras) and pagan influences such as the Holy Grail.
These things aren't evidence of truth in other faiths, but rather Catholics mashing bits of other faiths into their own to score them more converts. If you're a pagan, it's easy to convert to another religion if it's been made semi-pagan already.
2. "Aramaic is a language people know how to translate."
That is debatable. A lot of the way it was translated depended largely on how the translation would sound rather than any perceived truth in it. For instance: the word 'day'. Or lack thereof. Yep. No word for day. So the six days the heavens and Earth were created in where actually six 'periods of time'.
So if you were to translate the Bible for the first time today, imagine how much more scientifically accurate it would be already? Already we've thrown out one of the biggest obstacles between fundamentalists and the embrace of science and yet we've barely started.
Post edited May 30, 2010 by Navagon
avatar
Paradoks: He did say however:
“I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything for which they are to pray, it shall be granted to them by my heavenly Father.
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
avatar
Navagon: I see you left out the whole moving mountains bit. Wise choice, but unfortunately I'm already aware of it. :P Given that nobody is actually able to do that, does that mean there aren't any actual believers left in the world?

Two things:
1) It's called a hyperbole :P
2) I haven't left out anything - I quoted (Mt 18, 19n), you are referring to (Mt 17,20).
Post edited May 30, 2010 by Paradoks
avatar
Paradoks: Two things:
1) It's called a hyperbole :P
2) I haven't left out anything - I quoted (Mt 18, 19n), you are referring to (Mt 17,20).

So "truly I say to you" is the way most people begin their exaggerated rhetoric? Nonetheless, if you can pray for anything and it will happen, then why doesn't it work for even the most simple, vital things? Does that mean there aren't any true believers left?
avatar
Lou: God wrote the Bible - using man as an instrument: I Peter 1
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

I'm sorry, but I too could write a book which said "God wrote this book, and it contains absolute truth". That is not an argument.
avatar
Wishbone: I'm sorry, but I too could write a book which said "God wrote this book, and it contains absolute truth". That is not an argument.

How does God explain all the edits, reinterpretations and outright ignorance of the way things are? Maybe he's getting senile.
avatar
Paradoks: Two things:
1) It's called a hyperbole :P
2) I haven't left out anything - I quoted (Mt 18, 19n), you are referring to (Mt 17,20).
avatar
Navagon: So "truly I say to you" is the way most people begin their exaggerated rhetoric? Nonetheless, if you can pray for anything and it will happen, then why doesn't it work for even the most simple, vital things? Does that mean there aren't any true believers left?

Oh dear, my preaching mode is turning on. Please don't downrate this - I'm just typing what's on my mind :).
So - there is one problem in what you have written - it does work :D.
And if the prayers are not answered - then there are a few possibilities here - either one's faith is not strong enough (one's trust has it's bounds), or someoneis asking for something that is not as good of a solution as it may seem. God knows best what is good for everyone. Every event, and every problem I face is there for a reason. He knows what I need before I do. What I want or what I expect may have nothing to do with His plans for me.