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dtgreene: I would love it, especially since the problems I have with the growth system in Morrowind/Oblivion is tied to character levels.

The one thing I would change is that I would make it so that harder tasks give more skill experience. For instance, fighting a stronger monster should be worth more than fighting a weaker one, and picking a harder lock should be worth more than picking an easier one, and so forth, Doing this would, among other things, make it actually feasible to reach higher skill levels without it getting too repetitive. (Interestingly, this is one thing that Final Fantasy 2 got right, at least in regards to skill levels; fighting higher rank enemies will actually give you more skill experience.)
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GameRager: If you put in too much work on small details you(as a dev) can get overwhelmed quite quickly...just a head's up.
I definitely understand this.

Incidentally, one example is likely not to apply to the game I would make, as I don't have any plans to include lock picking in any form into the game. If there's a locked door, the player will need to find a key or some way to bypass it (teleporter or prhaps a transportation spell, but those may end up not existing anyway).
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dtgreene: I would love it, especially since the problems I have with the growth system in Morrowind/Oblivion is tied to character levels.

The one thing I would change is that I would make it so that harder tasks give more skill experience. For instance, fighting a stronger monster should be worth more than fighting a weaker one, and picking a harder lock should be worth more than picking an easier one, and so forth, Doing this would, among other things, make it actually feasible to reach higher skill levels without it getting too repetitive. (Interestingly, this is one thing that Final Fantasy 2 got right, at least in regards to skill levels; fighting higher rank enemies will actually give you more skill experience.)
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GameRager: If you put in too much work on small details you(as a dev) can get overwhelmed quite quickly...just a head's up.
Not really. Many RPGs already have XP scaling where enemies gives more XP if they're higher level than you vs lower level. At some point once you outlevel them enough, they may stop giving XP completely. And higher level quests give more XP, and even lockpicking higher level locks can give more XP. Now just apply this not to general XP but to "skill XP".
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GameRager: If you put in too much work on small details you(as a dev) can get overwhelmed quite quickly...just a head's up.
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kalirion: Not really. Many RPGs already have XP scaling where enemies gives more XP if they're higher level than you vs lower level. At some point once you outlevel them enough, they may stop giving XP completely. And higher level quests give more XP, and even lockpicking higher level locks can give more XP. Now just apply this not to general XP but to "skill XP".
Doing some small things might not take much time but they can add up and still overwhelm a dev if too many things are added to their "plate". That's basically what I was trying to get at.
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scientiae: It sounds like you are troubled by the uncertainty of which items are worth keeping, rather than the weight limit.…
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kalirion: Just with Melee weapons alone - there are those which are better against certain enemy types, those with speed vs damage trade offs, those those that require ammo and those that don't, plus keeping around some to use as repair material for the main ones since durability is always an issue.

And then there are the guns of all types - pistols, shotguns, assault rifles, snipers, heavy, etc. I WANT THEM ALL!!!
Yes, I understand the urge to collect stuffs but may I gently remind you of the requirement that games ought to be fun?*

While I spend almost all my playtime experimenting with game mechanics in an effort to optimize a character / strategy / tactic / et hoc genus omne, my own obsessive-compulsions would become unruly should I not limit them with a "but is that really worth it" rational assessment. So, while I would equally try every weapon to determine it's optimal use, setting, target, mood, specificity, whatever else, once I have determined same (categorized and concluded its properties), I will then iterate through the other weapons. Do you really want to keep a heavy, low-damage, slow weapon, when there is a better one?

For instance, it is a lot of fun to use the chemical weapon in Deus Ex: watching mooks running about aflame whilst screaming never gets old, but the weapon is bulky and the ammunition is finite (and some mooks are immune), so the weapon is not suitable to carry throughout the game. (I much prefer the silent sniping of the dart crossbow, anyway.)

I'm more interested in finding the best weapon for a situation.

If that weapon is generally good overall, then all the better. But this is less and less likely as games are developed based on the experience of gamers who have played earlier games — meta-development. In UFO: Aftermath, for another instance, weapons have hard, soft and universal ammo. (There are other attack vectors, too, like psionic weapons.) There are different types of armour, which absorb different amounts of each type of damage, so that some of the genetic mutations are better dealt with soft ammunition and the aliens, who wear armour, are best targeted with hard ammo. (Universal is a sort of compromise between the two.) This means that a team will best have a load-out that features a mix of weaponry, to shoot different types of ammo. While a soldier can carry two or three weapons and ammo, it is unrealistic in the extreme to carry more.

Choosing is part of the game. It's another factor, like if or when to heal a character in the midst of a battle (losing an offensive opportunity confer losing a teammate), or when to a bonus damage (perhaps the shot will miss and the bonus will need to be accrued again).

You are avoiding a game-designed limitation that, once you acclimate, will provide more enjoyment overall.

* Soothing a craving does not yield enjoyment, per se, it merely obviates a discomfort, only to create the need to sooth it once again (and, with tachiphylaxis, usually using more resources). Scratching an itch will never trigger an orgasm, however good it feels.
Double-posting FTW!
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scientiae: … properties to find what is best for the character you have, so a dexterity-based character with ranged weapons, for instance, or a big stick for a strength-based character, and then sell the rest of the loot.
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dtgreene: Yes, but what if I get bored with the dexterity based setup and want to try a strength based one for a bit? Or, what if I decide I want to create a new strength based character to add to my party? Or, what if the game decides to take away my dexterity based character and give me a strength based one in their place?

(These may not apply to the fallout games, but there are games where this sort of thing can happen, and I actually like it when the first two are possible (not so much the third).)

Also, I like to collect unique items, and inventory limits interfere with that.

(I'm thinking something like SaGa Frontier 1's inventory ststem is close to ideal; there's no inventory space limit, but there's a limit on how much any character can equip at once, plus the majority of characters have body slot restrictions (like not being able to equip two suits of armor at once).)
Is that really a fun scenario, though? I would have trouble taking the game seriously if I could change fundamental characteristics, like dexterity or strength (or wisdom, or intelligence, or even gender, or whatever) whenever it took my fancy. Sure, these abilities are modifiable (either temporarily through wearable objects / environmental factors, etc., or permanently through practice, education, injury, etc., or even deliberately / accidentally, like the Baldur's Gate girdle) but to change them whimsically would detract from the ability of the IP to suspend my disbelief. How about you?

Unique items are a particular purgatory all of their own: unless they have a natural host, how to choose who gets what in a team of characters? (Yes, I hoard and I will pack my rat to overfull, if allowed. :)

Like life, methinks, the enjoyment is not the total mastery of the situation through accumulated possessions, but instead the infinitely variable but interesting ability to adapt to the specifics; limitations actually create (almost) unlimited opportunities for adaptation, whereas unlimited scope often devolves into boring (min-maxed) been-there-done-that gaming.
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scientiae: Double-posting FTW!
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dtgreene: Yes, but what if I get bored with the dexterity based setup and want to try a strength based one for a bit? Or, what if I decide I want to create a new strength based character to add to my party? Or, what if the game decides to take away my dexterity based character and give me a strength based one in their place?

(These may not apply to the fallout games, but there are games where this sort of thing can happen, and I actually like it when the first two are possible (not so much the third).)

Also, I like to collect unique items, and inventory limits interfere with that.

(I'm thinking something like SaGa Frontier 1's inventory ststem is close to ideal; there's no inventory space limit, but there's a limit on how much any character can equip at once, plus the majority of characters have body slot restrictions (like not being able to equip two suits of armor at once).)
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scientiae: Is that really a fun scenario, though? I would have trouble taking the game seriously if I could change fundamental characteristics, like dexterity or strength (or wisdom, or intelligence, or even gender, or whatever) whenever it took my fancy. Sure, these abilities are modifiable (either temporarily through wearable objects / environmental factors, etc., or permanently through practice, education, injury, etc., or even deliberately / accidentally, like the Baldur's Gate girdle) but to change them whimsically would detract from the ability of the IP to suspend my disbelief. How about you?

Unique items are a particular purgatory all of their own: unless they have a natural host, how to choose who gets what in a team of characters? (Yes, I hoard and I will pack my rat to overfull, if allowed. :)

Like life, methinks, the enjoyment is not the total mastery of the situation through accumulated possessions, but instead the infinitely variable but interesting ability to adapt to the specifics; limitations actually create (almost) unlimited opportunities for adaptation, whereas unlimited scope often devolves into boring (min-maxed) been-there-done-that gaming.
You mention considerations about whether you could change fundamental characteristics on a whim in a post that I mentioned SaGa Frontier, which just so happens to be a game in which you can do that sort of thing.

Well, actually it depends on the race:
* Human: You can't instantly change stats here, but it's not too hard to raise a siat that has been low all game. Just have the character use a weapon (or spell) that exercises the stat you want to raise, and it should raise pretty quickly as long as the stat (including bonuses from equipment, for whatever reason) is low for that point in the game. (I note that a Human or Mystic with low maximum HP who does nothing but defend or perform actions that don't boost stats (like firing missles at the enemies) is guaranteed to gain HP at the end of the battle)).
* Mystic: Mystics get much of their stats by absorbing enemies in their mystic weapon. If you want to change a mystic's stats, just find a suitable enemy and have them kill it with the mystic weapon, and the stat boosts from the new monster will replace the ones from the old.
* Mechs: Almost all of their stats come from equipment. So, give your mech items that boost the stat you want and their corresponding stats will skyrocket, while the ones boosted by old equipment will plummet. (I am strongly considering a character type with this style of growth if I make the RPG.)
* Monsters: If you learn specific combinations of abilities, the monster will change into a specific form, and all the monster's stats (including LP, which is immutable for other characters (excepl for one place where the main character can permanently exchange LP for items)) will completely change.
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kalirion: Just with Melee weapons alone - there are those which are better against certain enemy types, those with speed vs damage trade offs, those those that require ammo and those that don't, plus keeping around some to use as repair material for the main ones since durability is always an issue.

And then there are the guns of all types - pistols, shotguns, assault rifles, snipers, heavy, etc. I WANT THEM ALL!!!
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scientiae: Yes, I understand the urge to collect stuffs but may I gently remind you of the requirement that games ought to be fun?*
That's the thing - spending 90% of my "gametime" on inventory management is the opposite of what I consider to be fun. That's why the game's on an indefinite hold.
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scientiae: Yes, I understand the urge to collect stuffs but may I gently remind you of the requirement that games ought to be fun?*
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kalirion: That's the thing - spending 90% of my "gametime" on inventory management is the opposite of what I consider to be fun. That's why the game's on an indefinite hold.
Yes, I concur. Poor inventory management is a definite turn-off.
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scientiae:
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dtgreene: You mention considerations about whether you could change fundamental characteristics on a whim in a post that I mentioned SaGa Frontier, which just so happens to be a game in which you can do that sort of thing.

Well, actually it depends on the race:
* Human: You can't instantly change stats here, but it's not too hard to raise a stat that has been low all game. Just have the character use a weapon (or spell) that exercises the stat you want to raise, and it should raise pretty quickly as long as the stat (including bonuses from equipment, for whatever reason) is low for that point in the game. (I note that a Human or Mystic with low maximum HP who does nothing but defend or perform actions that don't boost stats (like firing missiles at the enemies) is guaranteed to gain HP at the end of the battle)).
* Mystic: Mystics get much of their stats by absorbing enemies in their mystic weapon. If you want to change a mystic's stats, just find a suitable enemy and have them kill it with the mystic weapon, and the stat boosts from the new monster will replace the ones from the old.
* Mechs: Almost all of their stats come from equipment. So, give your mech items that boost the stat you want and their corresponding stats will skyrocket, while the ones boosted by old equipment will plummet. (I am strongly considering a character type with this style of growth if I make the RPG.)
* Monsters: If you learn specific combinations of abilities, the monster will change into a specific form, and all the monster's stats (including LP, which is immutable for other characters (except for one place where the main character can permanently exchange LP for items)) will completely change.
Interesting.

edit: merged replies
Post edited June 08, 2019 by scientiae