[url=http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_VXSwGdWHPD8/TNIsn2RU3EI/AAAAAAAAARg/9smpgYRuazU/s1600/HPIM3106+(Graded).JPG]The end is nigh.[/url]

On the contrary, using current social context (mostly relevant to much less than a century) to judge thousand of years old laws is illogical. But then, you seem unwilling or unable to discuss this rationally, instead using strawman arguments like "the universe was created by a bearded man in days" (and frankly, the rest of it; you don't seem capable of saying anything that's not exaggerated and irrelevant).

Although I'm curious as to what possibilities of the existence of God you see as an agnostic, it would probably be better to just stop this discussion since it clearly leads nowhere.

Actually, discussing about fairy tales books that aren't as old, and they copy exhaustively older religions laws, eradicating any polytheist vision, and transforming other Gods in Demons, happens more or less exactly when the state becomes more powerful and civilization reunites in bigger clusters, not when "God" decided to talk with a dude lost in the desert sending him and his folks, a fax with 10 laws, written in a rock.

Again, PRIMITIVE POLITICS.

PD: Talking "rationally" about the Tora, Bible, Coram, yes sure... dude...

WE ARE ALL DOOMED

While this doesn't seem related to anything I wrote, at least it's somewhat of a reasonable argument (still overly exaggerated and mostly wrong, of course). I still don't get the "aren't as old" part. What isn't as old as what? The Old Testament certainly is 2-3 thousand year old, and you judge it in light of thought from the past couple of decades. That's what I didn't understand.

The Old Testament didn't transform Gods into Demons, by the way, only said that they were false. (Just to point out one of the fallacies in your argument.)

False, many of the hell myths came from previous religions and philosophies, as false as the Christian God or the Jew one. Period.

Well I can understand why you consider that the old testament is "old" if you also think that "God" (The "real" one) gave us laws more than 197.000 years later than mankind started to be "humans"

Please more rationality...

The Old Testament was written down between ~1200 and ~900 BCE. The stories that were written down are partially as old as ~4000 BCE, ur even older since some were written down in Ur (in different versions with different gods and protagonists) and were old even then (Ur was founded around 3800 BCE.)

So there are at least 3000 years where the stories were passed on almost exclusively in oral tradition. They were transformed and influenced by neighboring cultures and current political events. We now know that some of the places existed and some events happened, but a lot is extremely exaggerated. The ancestor leader of a small tribe became a legendary king in retrospect. Hamlets became cities with palaces and little skirmishes with the neighbors became epic battles. And that is only natural. It's basically an ancestor cult that tries to justify its power by legendary progenitors that are somehow "chosen". So they were made "bigger", just like other ancient heroes (like the Greek's) that probably existed sometime someplace and won a battle or two but were transformed to legendary ubermensch half-gods. On the other hand - a lot of stories were plainly invented - for what reason we can only speculate. But records of neighboring cultures (like the Egyptians) show that some things just didn't take place.

The original (oral) stories were of course again carefully chosen, transformed and edited when they were written down. Different gods were replaced by one. That's why the God of the Old Testament seems quite erratic. He is basically schizoid - containing the personalities of many tribal gods of old.

Oh, toxicTom, stop interjecting with well written arguments to elucidate the issue. You're totally interfering with me trolling a low quality agnostic, who couldn't write a logical sentence even if he was to be smitten down if he didn't. :)

Said by a probably Jew believer trying to represent the Tora as a "sociological" book.

Because GOD's LAWS!!! transmitted to humankind are very LOGICAL

Sure... MEGALOL

GOG doesn't exist?

There's no proof of GOG's existence. All the evidence is circumstantial, and many people are certain that it's just a sociological phenomenal meant to draw groups of people with "laws" which aren't well defined, such as DRM-free and equal worldwide pricing (a law which GOG Itself, if It exists, seems to have violated), and so control them. GOG followers can't even agree amongst themselves what GOG stands for, and several sects exist and often get into minor skirmishes regarding issues such as whether serial keys are DRM or not, and whether Steam is the Devil or merely an unpleasant force of nature.

You're confusing likelihood with logic. Logic is a matter of reasoning. It's possible to reason that God doesn't exist, but that's something you seem unable to do. There's no reason, no logic in your arguments. They're all over the place and mostly straw man.

Bad sophism man, it was you who mixed God with Logic.
Since they published Lucas Arts games, It has all my FAITH

I my self believe in God. But the question is who is he really we humans cannot understand who he is.

I am not like most Christians i don't go around forcing my beliefs on any one. Your beliefs are yours as the same as mine. If only this world would give up there tools of war over stupid stuff and for once get along then perhaps the being above would bless this wicked world. Who knows.

We don't really know whats on the other side after this life. Is hell a real place are just something that was written in the holy book. Its kinda odd that before the modern bibles the place was called Sheol meaning the grave and when we die we go a sleep. But i don't know i rather try not fear hell as i feel its a scare tatcit made by some churches. I do think there may be a place for the wicked and i mean the ones who just don't care and rather live a life in complete evil and sin. But again i know not.

All i know and i say this a lot this life we live in is but the start and our next one is the next true one. Once we die and leave are human body then we and soul are free. I hope on the next side its peace.

You again miss the idea of logic. I assume it's partly a language problem, but certainly this sentence doesn't make much sense, especially considering that you claim to be agnostic, so you believe in the possibility of God in some form.

Exactly, because I am an agnostic, a good one, I cant accept children claiming their fairy tales books have a direct line with a God that they believe is unique, and the correct one. When also, is a pretty "new" God that most part of the time cannibalize previous believes. Among other ridiculous assumptions, like the masculinity or the gender of the Creator of the universe. Because yeah... he has not a "white beard" now, but sure he got a circumcised penis.

By the way being a believer or an agnostic has NOTHING to be with LOGIC.