Posted May 24, 2010
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Tantrix
Village idiot
Registered: Feb 2010
From Germany
![StingingVelvet](https://images.gog.com/b37d5c7bb28d5cee442267f7d9baeef3a34dbb99a77f067e8f45eea3a8c9369d_forum_avatar.jpg)
StingingVelvet
Devil's Advocate
Registered: Nov 2008
From United States
Posted May 24, 2010
![avatar](/upload/avatars/2010/05/b884dbb30adcd0b0bda4760149b08faf7c1c6bd8_t2.jpg)
The loss of the big three could be a good thing, as it would let the other companies to expand and grow, instead of being bought up and disbanded the moment they make anything that could remotely threaten the big three. Bioware was doing fine, yet it still got bought up by EA (via a partnered company, not through Bioware agreeing to the takeover). I don't feel that is a good thing, as it reduces competition. PC gaming is perfect for smaller companies, as it already has low-budget distribution channels that are cheaper and better than those for the consoles, which are not as great as they make out.
If you don't think massive publishers leaving the PC platform would hurt the platform's credibility as a real gaming base then good for you, but that is obviously not the case. Sure, indies would still be able to release on PC, but with less and less big titles even on the PC there will be less and less people using it who would buy them.
I am sure my view is somewhat influenced by the fact that I play all my games, with rare exception, on the PC. If games like Mass Effect 2 or Splinter Cell Conviction are not ported to the PC, I never play them. To lose those kinds of titles on the PC is probably a much bigger blow to me than to people who play console-designed games on the Xbox and only play true PC games on the PC. Still, ports or not, other avenues or not, the snubbing of a major publisher will not do anything for PC sales, PC hardware sales and continued releases from other publishers.
As every console manufacturer ever has learned, it's all about the game catalog.
![avatar](/upload/avatars/2010/05/b884dbb30adcd0b0bda4760149b08faf7c1c6bd8_t2.jpg)
That's a skewed view... BD might have had a slight lead, or been favored by slightly more analysts, but the competition was very much alive when Warner made its decision. There was even talk of Paramount going all HD-DVD, if I recall correctly.
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TheCheese33
Saves The Day
Registered: Sep 2008
From United States
Posted May 24, 2010
Are they really that fucking stupid? They're cannibalizing the sales of their new game, because when people see the subtitle "Sands of Time", they'll think of the movie, and not pick up "The Forgotten Sands"!
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Tantrix
Village idiot
Registered: Feb 2010
From Germany
Posted May 24, 2010
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I think they rather plan to get more sales through the movie to trick newcommers that this is the game to the movie...
Dx
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Shalgroth
...SQUIRREL!
Registered: Sep 2008
From Australia
Posted May 24, 2010
![avatar](/upload/avatars/2010/05/b884dbb30adcd0b0bda4760149b08faf7c1c6bd8_t2.jpg)
The loss of the big three could be a good thing, as it would let the other companies to expand and grow, instead of being bought up and disbanded the moment they make anything that could remotely threaten the big three. Bioware was doing fine, yet it still got bought up by EA (via a partnered company, not through Bioware agreeing to the takeover). I don't feel that is a good thing, as it reduces competition. PC gaming is perfect for smaller companies, as it already has low-budget distribution channels that are cheaper and better than those for the consoles, which are not as great as they make out.
Warner Bros did not kill HD-DVD, Warner Bros left because they realised that HD-DVD was a dead duck. 'Public dismissal' by Warner Bros had nothing to do with it, thats like saying the spots on a person killed them instead of the disease, symptom not a cause.
Velvet has a point as far as symbolism goes. The really big publishers have a history of acting like a black hole, they'll consume smaller developers (who often created some of the most legendary PC franchises) and regardless of how awesome the new game made under that big corporate umbrella might be, if it doesn't make a substantial profit for the higher ups - that studio often gets disbanded, and the talented people under it have to work on shitty ports, movie tie-ins and so on.
Getting people who have the skill and imagination to create new and interesting IPs end up doing by the number crap because of contractual obligations.
So as far as scare mongering goes, if Ubisoft 'left', followed by another big publisher (with all of their talented staff and IP rights acquired over the years) it would indeed be a monumental moment.
I doubt that PC gaming would die so quickly, as there are still people out there with the 'bedroom programmer' mentality. Making games on PC for the love of it, and hopefully making enough money to eat and keep creating what they would want to play.
And yes, you're right. It does reduce competition - that's the insidious thing about it. They buy out their competitors, or even just potential threats, and we tend to lose out.
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Stuff
Resident Old Man
Registered: Dec 2008
From United States
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Gundato
The Peepe
Registered: Sep 2008
From United States
Posted May 24, 2010
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Yes, fine. Games ARE a business, but what's to be thankful about? The threats that they'll jump ship? If we, PC and console gamers, are supposed to be thankful for their products, then let them be thankful for our money and show a little bit of respect towards the consumer.
Which is not the point at all, actually.
I am not saying we have to like it. I am not saying it is a good thing. But as of now, Ubi, EA, and Activision are basically keeping PC gaming alive. And if they stopped doing that, I have a sneaking suspicion that it would not be a good thing.
Don't make this about morality, ethics, "rights", and so forth. Just think in terms of keeping the market alive. Because even if digital distribution is bringing indie games to every compy, the big three are keeping those compies from getting too dusty.
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Tantrix
Village idiot
Registered: Feb 2010
From Germany
Posted May 24, 2010
![avatar](/upload/avatars/2010/02/a997fb7c056a52b7bb87a56eedeb2004da7bbd06_t2.jpg)
Dx
![avatar](/upload/avatars/2009/10/08e80cfd4a48f7c556eae4e6c31ef3d93b6332e0_t2.jpg)
Did you just hire the WW-Prince to travel through time to decapitate himself, causing to unleash the Dahaka?!
PIME TARADOX
Attachments:
Post edited May 24, 2010 by Tantrix
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Delixe
Not Merry
Registered: Sep 2008
From Ireland
Posted May 24, 2010
And your point that no one is getting is frankly off-topic.
We know Arse Creed2 didn't sell well because Ubisoft have not been shouting about the sales figures. They haven't done it about Splinter Cell: Conviction either and that usually means it hasn't sold well.
The simple point to this thread is that Ubisoft have treated their PC customers like criminals and have provided us nothing but ports so we have voted with our wallets and thats a GOOD thing. If Ubisoft decide that they are not prepared to take the PC seriously and want to pull out then good. Ubisoft are keeping the PC alive? How so exactly? Would any of us miss Assassins Creed? Splinter Cell? Prince of Persia: The sequel too far? We might miss games like Silent Hunter and The Settlers but it's likely if Ubisoft dump the PC then those developers will be dumped as well and then picked up by a publisher that actually cares about the PC market. Like Sega for example.
You are advocating us supporting Ubisoft no matter how badly they treat us as customers because without them the PC will die. It won't. EPIC left the PC and at the time many were saying the same about them. Has the PC missed EPIC? No.
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Stuff
Resident Old Man
Registered: Dec 2008
From United States
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Gundato
The Peepe
Registered: Sep 2008
From United States
Posted May 24, 2010
![avatar](/upload/avatars/2009/03/66d70d732475c5759aed7a327b61ecf14f168667_t2.jpg)
We know Arse Creed2 didn't sell well because Ubisoft have not been shouting about the sales figures. They haven't done it about Splinter Cell: Conviction either and that usually means it hasn't sold well.
The simple point to this thread is that Ubisoft have treated their PC customers like criminals and have provided us nothing but ports so we have voted with our wallets and thats a GOOD thing. If Ubisoft decide that they are not prepared to take the PC seriously and want to pull out then good. Ubisoft are keeping the PC alive? How so exactly? Would any of us miss Assassins Creed? Splinter Cell? Prince of Persia: The sequel too far? We might miss games like Silent Hunter and The Settlers but it's likely if Ubisoft dump the PC then those developers will be dumped as well and then picked up by a publisher that actually cares about the PC market. Like Sega for example.
You are advocating us supporting Ubisoft no matter how badly they treat us as customers because without them the PC will die. It won't. EPIC left the PC and at the time many were saying the same about them. Has the PC missed EPIC? No.
No, I am really not. Maybe you should read instead of just thinking of "clever" ways to bash the things you don't like :p
I am just saying that we shouldn't be so happy that they are failing. Hell, I specifically mentioned that I wasn't advocating supporting them actively (seriously, read the thread :p). But at the same time, we really need to hope that enough people continue doing so, because if they get the outright flop that the more short-sighted of us seem to want, PC gaming is not going to do well.
As for the Epic thing: I think only us Unreal-fanboys used to say that. Epic may have developed great PC games, but they had a very small number of games per year. Completely different. Ubi outputs one or two big titles per year, and a crapton of lesser titles. That is why they are one of the big three, and not just a dev team with a man who can hear his name across the entire internet.
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Delixe
Not Merry
Registered: Sep 2008
From Ireland
Posted May 24, 2010
![avatar](/upload/avatars/2008/09/1221231343556_t2.jpg)
So you are not advocating it but you are advocating that others do? Let me get this straight. You don't want to buy Ubisoft games but you hope others do in great numbers so Ubisoft will continue to make PC games that are just console ports with UbiDRM.
Exactly how are we going to miss Ubisoft? What do they bring to the PC platform that other companies don't? Ubisoft at the moment are trying to paint the picture that the PC is dying as a platform when other developers (EA, Sega, Square-Enix, Activision, CD Projekt) are all saying the opposite. The PC is a highly profitable platform if you handle it right and Ubisoft are not doing that. They want to change the PC into a platform they want and it's just not going to happen.
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Gundato
The Peepe
Registered: Sep 2008
From United States
Posted May 24, 2010
![avatar](/upload/avatars/2008/09/1221231343556_t2.jpg)
![avatar](/upload/avatars/2009/03/66d70d732475c5759aed7a327b61ecf14f168667_t2.jpg)
Exactly how are we going to miss Ubisoft? What do they bring to the PC platform that other companies don't? Ubisoft at the moment are trying to paint the picture that the PC is dying as a platform when other developers (EA, Sega, Square-Enix, Activision, CD Projekt) are all saying the opposite. The PC is a highly profitable platform if you handle it right and Ubisoft are not doing that. They want to change the PC into a platform they want and it's just not going to happen.
It is so relaxing to discuss things with you. You don't bother me with having to type things, because you'll just assume I said whatever you want :p
There is a difference between noticeably impacted sales and no sales. Seems like a lot of people want the no sales route. And as "fun" as that would be, it will only hurt PC gaming.
What I hope, and never really doubted, was that most people don't give a crap about ubi-drm. So they weren't going to flop. But hopefully, the impact of those who do care would make the difference.
Of the five companies you listed, only two of them are as large as Ubi (well, CD Projekt might be, but those lovable scamps are kind of weird as far as how much impact they have on PC gaming outside of Eastern Europe and us :p). And in any other thread, people would be whining that EA is ignoring PC gaming because they "only make sports games and casual games" and that Activision hates babies.
But either way. Ubi is probably wrong (hopefully). But what the hell does that matter?
Let's say you are one of the big companies. You suddenly see that Ubi has completely pulled out of PC gaming because it is not profitable. That isn't just "whining", that indicates it might actually NOT be profitable. At the very least, you are going to reevaluate things and make sure you get your foot even firmer into the console arena.
Now let's say you are one of the smaller companies. Ubi just pulled out of PC gaming because it is not profitable. You don't have a lot of capital to risk, so maybe you should focus on console games for the benefit of your employees.
You are a start-up company. But Ubi just fell apart. Maybe the other guys are still doing somewhat well (although, without seeing their figures, you can't be certain). So maybe you should make sure you make games that can run on the console.
Like I said, they aren't handling the PC the way many of us want them to (let's assume stupidity, rather than market research. it is more fun that way). But they ARE handling the PC, and for them to pull out would not benefit us.
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Delixe
Not Merry
Registered: Sep 2008
From Ireland
Posted May 24, 2010
![avatar](/upload/avatars/2008/09/1221231343556_t2.jpg)
I directly quoted you, I didn't assume anything. You then went on to confirm what I quoted.
The bottom line is that only Ubisoft are claiming the PC is a dying platform in direct contradiction to what the other publishers are saying. Sega is not as big as Ubisoft? I think you will find that after their recent acquisitions they are one of the biggest PC publishers now as are Square-Enix who recorded record profits just this week with Batman: Arkham Asylum being one of their top earners.
Do I know for a fact that AC2 didn't sell well? No but I can assume it from it's current retail price of $19.99. Thats a biblical collapse in RRP considering it's age.
As for EA there is no PC owner that claims they only make sports games and casual games as they also make Crysis, Dead Space, Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect. Four titles that are far more important than anything Ubisoft has in it's stable and four titles that are guaranteed to remain on the PC with Dragon Age: Origins being not only a flagship title but far superior on the PC than on consoles.
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Gundato
The Peepe
Registered: Sep 2008
From United States
Posted May 24, 2010
Oy. Let's start this from the top.
Okay, you keep arguing "Ubi bad". Good for you.
I am not saying PC gaming is dying.
If Ubi goes down, PC gaming is going to be hit VERY hard.
Do you notice how those three points are completely independent of each other? Stop pretending they aren't.
Okay, you keep arguing "Ubi bad". Good for you.
I am not saying PC gaming is dying.
If Ubi goes down, PC gaming is going to be hit VERY hard.
Do you notice how those three points are completely independent of each other? Stop pretending they aren't.
Post edited May 24, 2010 by Gundato