I'm only mentioning those few points because if I had to go into further detail I'd be here all morning typing. Yes, Obama inherited alot of issues and could have fixed much of it while he was in office, but the political environment is written and legal for the opposing half of congress to prevent progress. For example, how the republican senate and house has filibustered at least several hundred times on multiple bills, and as stated before can't be stopped without a majority vote which didn't exist ect ect. I have no issue with business having some tax relief, 40% is an assload for you and I imagine your business isn't that large. Companies that are getting 0% rates, AND making money off the tax forms, that should be abolished.

Here's the thing that you have to remember: Many issues came up that Obama inherited or occured under his office. Congress is very, VERY bipartistan right now, nothing got done because he still needs Congress to get anything done, he can't write laws otherwise. He could have done more, should have done more, Bush was a bad president yes, but he didn't cause everything, but he too should have done more, and the september 11 attacks created a ton of unity in congress, at least for the first couple years.

I still can't see the United States as being the greatest anything though. We have the most expensive army in the world for example, we also pay more thhan the next 5 countries combined, and carry more nuclear weapons than the next 3 weapons combined. I don't think we're spending all of that on soldiers, and we have the most advanced technology in the world already, I think we can afford to trim back some, but of course Romney and the GOP will say otherwise. If we're attacked, a terrorist attack, the military isn't going to be able to do anything to stop them, they exist to fight overseas. Stopping terrorism falls under the FBI, the Police, hard working men and women who do this every day rather than a few million soldiers who train to fight

Or, how about our economics? Housing crashes, the GDP is slowing, debt climbing. We still have the world's best economy yes, but only because nobody else could catch it before things went to hell here. China's catching up and now even they're about to run into a wall because of their practices.

For businesses going overseas, I've heard a bunch of them are coming back because the standard llving wages have jumped for chinese employees, and between that and shipping it's cheaper just to manufacture in the US. Taxes are an influence, and surely not the only influence, but of course many businesses that went overseas could afford to move in the first place, largely manufacturing.


Again, it's just one big mess we're in right now. It's going to take more than one presidency to fix, but I still feel Obama's methods would be a better way to go than with Romney, simply because Romney is going to make my school life more difficult and my family's work life more difficult, and I'm concerned enough as it is with the world how it is right now.

Good post. Like you, I'm not trying to write a dissertation on GOG's forums although I'm sure we'd both love to write more. I have to run but I want to touch on some of your points (albeit incompletely):

Congress is supposed to live in gridlock. It's a very good thing, particularly when much of what Obama was pushing is not what the country wants or needs (hence the huge Republican landslide of 2010 and pending Senate majority - and probably presidency - in 2012). Hamilton voiced this best - in my opinion - in Federalist 71: The republican principle demands that the deliberate sense of the community should govern the conduct of those to whom they entrust the management of their affairs; but it does not require an unqualified complaisance to every sudden breeze of passion, or to every transient impulse which the people may receive from the arts of men, who flatter their prejudices to betray their interests.

America's strong military is a good thing. Don't get me wrong; I have military adventurism as well but being strong is a benefit. This is still a nasty world and we can see to this day what happens to people who can't defend themselves. I do support big-time military budget cuts, though.

The economic piece is tough to tackle in the few moments I have left but almost none of it is directly attributable to GWB. For example, the housing bust was caused by Fannie and Freddie buying up every single mortgage in the secondary market because of both implicit and explicit promises from the government to back their losses. Because of that, mortgage originators had no incentive to ensure people could actually pay their loans. They knew Fannie/Freddie would buy every loan no matter how absurd or risky and that's how we got to things like "No-Doc" loans. People have been calling the housing crash for a decade because this was an obvious house of cards proposition Even under Obama, over 95% of mortgages continue to be purchased by Fannie/Freddie.

Manufacturing jobs are mostly returning to the southeast because of the lack of unions and, therefore, reasonable costs. I'm originally from South Carolina and our whole region is doing great and will continue to do so as long as we keep unions at bay.

We can agree to disagree as gentlemen on your last point. I follow politics and economics too closely to even consider an Obama vote. His agenda is pushing us straight to EU territory which is very sad because we are more than capable of fixing our problems without resorting to policies that are proven failures.

Thank you QC and tangledblue for constructive discussion and debate without insults and name-calling. It restores my faith a little bit that we are not so polarized that we can't find a way to be decent to one another.

If Congress could find a way to do this, with a strong leader encouraging them to work together without the grandstanding and demonizing, the serious problems we face are completely solvable.

I quoted tangledblue because my thoughts on this coming election mirror those exactly.

This. The Republicans are making the exact same mistake they did last time because the more radical figures have hijacked the party.

You have one. His name is Barack Obama. If allowed to stand, his policies will reap huge dividends in the long run.

If the republicans are allowed in power again, they will instead undo what has been done, and sink the country in the process. You can't afford another war. You can't afford to cut taxes for the wealthy. You can't being to believe that cutting corporate taxes will increase jobs - all evidence from other nations who have attempted the same show no significant increase in jobs as a result.

You also can't begin to believe that a devout mormon with such a questionable grasp of reality being allowed in office is a good move for your country. If he lies to the people as a matter of campaign principle - why should he stop lying to you after the election? Wake the fuck up.

A little off-topic

What do you guys think of politifact.com?

http://www.politifact.com/

Wow.

So, by your own admission, you're freaking out about something that isn't Romney's positions, just the positions of somebody who happens to be in the same party. Unfortunately for your point, Romney is the party nominee, not whoever you're talking out.

Also, your insults about Romney's religion are childish and hypocritical. If you can't tolerant, why are you pretending to be a liberal?

That's leaving aside all the ways you're blatantly wrong about who had what policies, and how you're completely ignoring the fact that Obama's corporatist policies combine the worst of socialism (tried and failed in Europe and UK) and the corruption that's been crippling Japan for decades now.

i figure, romney is like a badger that ate some bad cheese. now he has bad gas, and when democrats try to poke him, he rips one and the republican party starts saying stuff like "it smells like victory!"



the bottom line is, QUIT MAKING FUN OF ROMNEY, NOBODY LIKES THE STINK!

There's no reason to tolerate religion. People should feel free to criticize it. Unfortunately, republicans ascribe to some of the most backward and unsubstantiated ideas. What that guy said about women and rape is so far beyond logical, a fourth grader's knowledge of science would prove it wrong. It's scary what some of these guys believe, or pretend to believe for the sake of their constituents.

There's plenty of good in religion. I'm sorry that you don't see any, but personally I find that charity, love of all people and universal brotherhood is a great reason to support my religion. Imperfect people frequently fall short of those standards, but that's no reason to say we shouldn't try to preach and support those standards.

Which guys said what (please include sources)? I mean, there's a lot of wackos all over the political spectrum. Seriously, the crazy Democrats in my old hometown were frightening. Some of the weird Republicans in Texas were just as bad. The fact that extremists will be extreme is no reason to come down on a fairly moderate, effective nominee who was the governor of Massachusetts while homosexual marriage was legalized, for crying out loud.

It would be pretty awesome if those were the main things religion inspired. Instead the more religious political party is also the one saying survival of the fittest.

I've found all of these positive traits among atheists as well, and seemingly no less commonly. While religion may espouse positive traits, they are not the source, nor the cause, and belief in one is clearly not required for one to posses said traits.

I am an atheist, but I can't deny that christian church does the BIGGEST job in Africa even though the colonial states are responsible for damage done there.

Christian church does more to the charity, especially in Africa, that any other organisations combined.

Sometimes christian priests forget about Jesus's lessons on love and compassion, seem to focus more on Old Testament instead of New Testament, but hey, it's not the religion that is flawed here, it's people.

Christianity teaches to love thou friend and love thou enemy. There isn't much more to say.

I know quite a few christians that don't go to any church, they just try to follow what Jesus taught them. And these are good people.

Yeah, you don't need to be religious to be a good person, of course.

But blank bashin over religion isn't really constructive. Live and let live. Why you're bothered so much to force your views on religion on others? You seem to be pretty zelaous for a person who DOESN'T BELIEVE, StingingVelvet.

No they're not. Such beliefs are not those of a sane, accountable human being.

It's dicksmacking irrelevant if they're Romneys personal positions or not. He's fronting the sewage, and he'll be fronting those policies if elected whether he likes it or not.
And these are traits of your religion, rather than the species? Are these traits not commonly found outside the confines of your religion?