It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
avatar
ET3D: When you want to play a game that requires Steam, you have one of two choices:
1. Play the game and accept the limitations.
2. Don't play the game.

I can't see how (2) can be superior to (1).
avatar
uruk: Well there are countless games out there, more than you could likely play in your mere lifetime. so not playing one or two games is really no big deal.
And if you believe that playing a particular game is meaningless, then DRM-free is meaningless. (Well, not completely, but at least the part of keeping a game for years to come.)
Post edited November 17, 2014 by ET3D
avatar
ET3D: And if you believe that playing a particular game is meaningless, then DRM-free is meaningless. (Well, not completely, but at least the part of keeping a game for years to come.)
Not meaningless. Just that there might be other games i want to play more than game x or y. That and not buying a game now, doesn't mean you won't buy it later. as time passes, many things might happen like oh say, lower price, a big sale on the games in question, comes to your favorite digital store. Due to time passing, more reviewers have had a chance to review the game. all things which could change ones mind about a game.
avatar
ChesHatter: Hi everyone,

I'm relatively new to the pc gaming scene, and I guess I've been spoiled by GOG's DRM-free-ness so much that reality just hit me like a slippery fish.

I've been thinking about buying some newer big games like Skyrim (for their modding communities primarily), but when I looked into buying it... apparently the disc I'd buy doesn't actually contain Skyrim, but... Steam?

So I just wanted to ask the advice of people who (I imagine) have been dealing with Steam/Origin/etc longer than I have... do I kind of just "deal with it" if I want to play these games?

Are they as annoying as some people make them seem (I've read many complaints about Origin especially), or is it not all that bad? The idea of suddenly losing all my progress if my internet has a mild hiccup doesn't sound fun... amongst other issues like Origins spying on me for some reason...

Just wanted to hear your opinions. Thanks for any and all advice you feel like sharing!
avatar
monkeydelarge: When you buy a Steam game, you are really just renting it because you have no control over the game. Any time Steam feels like it it, they can mess with it or remove it or whatever. Steam also uses up resources while running so this could mess with your gaming performance if you have a weak machine. You are also giving your $$$ to the dark side. Is Steam, annoying? If you have a good internet connection, then the answer to that question is "no". Does Steam spy on you? They spy on you only if you let them spy on you. So if you don't mind renting a game, supporting the dark side and have a good internet connection, then purchasing Skyrim is not a decision you will regret.
I am not saying this just because i have a steam account since almost 11 years (feb 2004), but you have control over your games.

Prey was pulled from steam, i had bought and registered my game and i still can download and play it (i can provide pics). Wolfenstein (2009), you cannot buy it right now but people like me that already had it, can download and play it.

These are just a few examples, but content can always be played.
Regarding connections, i don't get what you mean. Once you activate a game you can play it offline. So what's the story?
avatar
Ganni1987: I would only use Steam if the user:

- Wants to play a free online game like DoTA 2/Whatever/Insert F2P game here.
- Wants a DRM-Free game that isn't available on GoG.

I hate Steam as a service, as a platform and it's very existence altogether. I can't stand the thought that a user is renting his games not owning them.
[...]
define 'renting'. If you are 'renting' your games on Steam, you are also 'renting' it from gOg. Your ownership of the games are exactly the same on both services.
avatar
ET3D: When you want to play a game that requires Steam, you have one of two choices:
1. Play the game and accept the limitations.
2. Don't play the game.
3. Take measures that the game doesn't require Steam anymore. Not possible with digitally purchased products of course, since you need Steam at least for the initial download (even if you can somehow "debundle" the game afterwards).
avatar
ET3D: When you want to play a game that requires Steam, you have one of two choices:
1. Play the game and accept the limitations.
2. Don't play the game.
avatar
toxicTom: 3. Take measures that the game doesn't require Steam anymore. Not possible with digitally purchased products of course, since you need Steam at least for the initial download (even if you can somehow "debundle" the game afterwards).
I'm not familiar with these options (except for getting a pirated version, which I won't condone, although I think it's fine if you buy the game). Removing Steam dependency of a game removes most of the problems or perceived problems with Steam, making it basically a downloader.
avatar
ET3D: And if you believe that playing a particular game is meaningless, then DRM-free is meaningless. (Well, not completely, but at least the part of keeping a game for years to come.)
avatar
uruk: Not meaningless. Just that there might be other games i want to play more than game x or y. That and not buying a game now, doesn't mean you won't buy it later. as time passes, many things might happen like oh say, lower price, a big sale on the games in question, comes to your favorite digital store. Due to time passing, more reviewers have had a chance to review the game. all things which could change ones mind about a game.
Yea, but we're talking (at least originally) about Skyrim, a game that's widely known and costs $5 on sales. We're talking about someone who wants to play the game. Sure, he could play another game, but I feel that spending $5 on this game on Steam is acceptable risk, and certainly worth it if he enjoys the game. Sure, if ideology is involved then that trumps practical considerations, but if he doesn't care about that, there's nothing particularly limiting about Steam that would make buying that game not worth it. Even if he ends up not liking Steam that much, he would still have enjoyed the game.
Post edited November 17, 2014 by ET3D
avatar
ChesHatter: I thought of something I should probably ask you guys (and gals) while I have your ear (eyes?)...

If I buy Skyrim on disc, it makes me download Steam, etc, etc... one day Steam deletes my account or goes away somehow... do I still have a game to play? Can I only play it in "offline mode" or something, or is it rendered unplayable and gone forever without Steam?
Likewise, if you choose not to agree to the periodic EULA updates for Steam, you may also be locked out of the games that require its use unless you can find a workaround (firsthand experience 2-3 years ago).

Note that you aren't agreeing or disagreeing to a EULA for the game itself, but only the service under which the game is operating (the Steam client). And it's retroactive, so even if you do agree with the EULA presented at the time of purchase of the game, an updated EULA supersedes the old ones and you will likely lose access until you buckle under and click Agree.

DRM-free titles, obviously, circumvent that problem once you have the installer.
avatar
ET3D: I'm not familiar with these options (except for getting a pirated version, which I won't condone, although I think it's fine if you buy the game). Removing Steam dependency of a game removes most of the problems or perceived problems with Steam, making it basically a downloader.
It sometimes means a pirated version, true. Sometimes you only need a fixed installer and exe and some fake Steam dlls.

Sometimes it's the only way. I know a lot of people who bought Manhunt 2 in the UK. But you can't install/activate it with a German IP address (IP ban). And going through an VPN to mask the German IP address can lead to losing your account. I know of several people who had this problem. And guess what - they#re using TPB instead of Steam now...

Same problem if you want uncensored versions of certain games (like, in the past, Half-Life 2, though I don't know if this is still the case). German IP = censored version. Even if you bought the damn thing in the US. In the beginning of Steam censored/uncensored was determined by the serial number - Germany had it's own range. Or sometimes by Steam language settings (German - bloodless, English, well "English"). I lol'd when all the people defending Steam as "not so bad" and "no problem with my imported game" suddenly had blood and gore removed when Steam switched it's censorship policy to geolocation dependent...
avatar
Ganni1987: I would only use Steam if the user:

- Wants to play a free online game like DoTA 2/Whatever/Insert F2P game here.
- Wants a DRM-Free game that isn't available on GoG.

I hate Steam as a service, as a platform and it's very existence altogether. I can't stand the thought that a user is renting his games not owning them.
[...]
avatar
amok: define 'renting'. If you are 'renting' your games on Steam, you are also 'renting' it from gOg. Your ownership of the games are exactly the same on both services.
No. It isn't. See my above post. The differences are enforcement of the EULA, and how you acquire the installer in the first place.
avatar
Ganni1987: I would only use Steam if the user:

- Wants to play a free online game like DoTA 2/Whatever/Insert F2P game here.
- Wants a DRM-Free game that isn't available on GoG.

I hate Steam as a service, as a platform and it's very existence altogether. I can't stand the thought that a user is renting his games not owning them.
[...]
avatar
amok: define 'renting'. If you are 'renting' your games on Steam, you are also 'renting' it from gOg. Your ownership of the games are exactly the same on both services.
Everytime I need to play a game on Steam I need to log on the client, have the client open and be on internet (excluding the "offline mode"). I don't want to ask permission from mommy valve or have her sit next to me while I play.

With GOG, I can simply shake hands > thanks for the transaction and once I download the game I can forget about the store entirely. My game will work as long as I have a backup.

You're slightly wrong on that "exactly the same on both services" line, on an EULA level it might be the same, But If it was really the same there wouldn't be a copy protection on the Steam version.

Take a look at this news. Did the "owners" actually own the game? It isn't a matter what kind of game was online/offline, the point is that they didn't have any control over it. If this was on GOG and the game's servers would shut down, you still have what you paid for, regardless if the game works or not.

This is my definition of renting.
avatar
amok: define 'renting'. If you are 'renting' your games on Steam, you are also 'renting' it from gOg. Your ownership of the games are exactly the same on both services.
avatar
HereForTheBeer: No. It isn't. See my above post. The differences are enforcement of the EULA, and how you acquire the installer in the first place.
No, the ownership is exactly the same. The difference is that gOg entrust its users to uphold the license agreement, while on Steam it can be enforces. However, this do not change the actual ownership.
avatar
toxicTom: 3. Take measures that the game doesn't require Steam anymore. Not possible with digitally purchased products of course, since you need Steam at least for the initial download (even if you can somehow "debundle" the game afterwards).
avatar
ET3D: I'm not familiar with these options (except for getting a pirated version, which I won't condone, although I think it's fine if you buy the game). Removing Steam dependency of a game removes most of the problems or perceived problems with Steam, making it basically a downloader.
avatar
uruk: Not meaningless. Just that there might be other games i want to play more than game x or y. That and not buying a game now, doesn't mean you won't buy it later. as time passes, many things might happen like oh say, lower price, a big sale on the games in question, comes to your favorite digital store. Due to time passing, more reviewers have had a chance to review the game. all things which could change ones mind about a game.
avatar
ET3D: Yea, but we're talking (at least originally) about Skyrim, a game that's widely known and costs $5 on sales. We're talking about someone who wants to play the game. Sure, he could play another game, but I feel that spending $5 on this game on Steam is acceptable risk, and certainly worth it if he enjoys the game. Sure, if ideology is involved then that trumps practical considerations, but if he doesn't care about that, there's nothing particularly limiting about Steam that would make buying that game not worth it. Even if he ends up not liking Steam that much, he would still have enjoyed the game.
What is the risk exactly? It's exactly the same as buying from GOG, Humble bundle or other online companies.
avatar
amok: define 'renting'. If you are 'renting' your games on Steam, you are also 'renting' it from gOg. Your ownership of the games are exactly the same on both services.
No? Steam can effectively lock you out. Games gone. GOG can't. Everything that you have is yours to keep, even if you lose your account. Of course it's your responsibility to make sure of backups and stuff - just like with physical media. CDs/DVDs don't have unlimited lifespans either.
Attachments:
gogbuy.jpg (14 Kb)
Post edited November 17, 2014 by toxicTom
avatar
amok: define 'renting'. If you are 'renting' your games on Steam, you are also 'renting' it from gOg. Your ownership of the games are exactly the same on both services.
avatar
Ganni1987: Everytime I need to play a game on Steam I need to log on the client, have the client open and be on internet (excluding the "offline mode"). I don't want to ask permission from mommy valve or have her sit next to me while I play.

With GOG, I can simply shake hands > thanks for the transaction and once I download the game I can forget about the store entirely. My game will work as long as I have a backup.

You're slightly wrong on that "exactly the same on both services" line, on an EULA level it might be the same, But If it was really the same there wouldn't be a copy protection on the Steam version.

Take a look at this news. Did the "owners" actually own the game? It isn't a matter what kind of game was online/offline, the point is that they didn't have any control over it. If this was on GOG and the game's servers would shut down, you still have what you paid for, regardless if the game works or not.

This is my definition of renting.
I can also backup my DRM'd games on Steam, and I still have what I paid for " regardless if the game works or not." I can play the DRM free games on Steam without opening Steam (or indeed ever using Steam again if I so wish and have backed them up).

No, that is not renting... This is issues of access, not about ownership of the product. Renting is in fact a very precise term, and buying a game on Steam do not fall into it. Buying a game on Steam gives you the exactly same license as buying the same game on gOg. Therefor, the issue is not about 'renting' or 'buying', but about access and DRM. This is fine, and it the correct way to deal with it. Mixing 'renting' into it actually spreading propaganda .
avatar
amok: define 'renting'. If you are 'renting' your games on Steam, you are also 'renting' it from gOg. Your ownership of the games are exactly the same on both services.
avatar
toxicTom: No? Steam can effectively lock you out. Games gone. GOG can't. Everything that you have is yours to keep, even if you lose your account. Of course it's your responsibility to make sure of backups and stuff - just like with physical media. CDs/DVDs don't have unlimited lifespans either.
But you can still loose your right to download the game. I mean our hard drives and discs dont last forever. One of them dies and your games are gone. It's all the same shit.