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Faithful: It appears though that some Independent Publishers use DRM as well (e.g. Spiderweb Software), so one must be careful.
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dougaiton: I'm sorry, but come on....
SpiderwebSoftware release massive, huge demos that are unlocked by a code as close to instantly as Jeff can get to his computer once you've paid, which you can get redone whenever you need it. If you order the game on CD, it comes with no DRM whatsoever. The CD version is free, bar shipping ($4 international).
Have a go at the big guys, but describing Spiderweb Software - or any shareware developer - as having DRM that one should be careful about is a baseless shot which will hurt their reputation on internet fora like this.

I cannot change the fact they use DRM mild (if bought from them) or otherwise; especially on Gamersgate.
Avernum 6 on Gamersgate with Securom. Geneforge 5 the same.
I just used them as an example, not that they are the only ones (that is why I use "e.g." and not "i.e").
I am still a bit confused regarding their mild (I hope that is better) DRM that requires you to contact them for a new key if you uninstall and reinstall a game; as I understand the code is randomly generated each time.
Here is the thread I created there on this topic, but I still am not altogether clear on their DRM. There is no official response in that thread. At least I do not think so.
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stonebro: Well, not anymore. Companies have been trying to kill the second-hand market for the PC for a long time. For example, they managed to get the resale of any unique key prohibited, basically tying the game to you and you only as long as it came with a CD key. Hence shops like Gamestop cannot resell PC games at all, and the second-hand market for PC has long been based on private reselling. With the introduction of tying your game to a unique online account shared between several titles though, even that small opportunity has vanished.
These restrictions do not apply to consoles.

Maybe they've killed it in your country, but internationally the reselling of PC games is alive and well. Here in Canada I can walk into any EBgames (owned by Gamestop) and browse a used PC games section that's larger than any of the individual console systems used games sections..
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stonebro: Well, not anymore. Companies have been trying to kill the second-hand market for the PC for a long time. For example, they managed to get the resale of any unique key prohibited, basically tying the game to you and you only as long as it came with a CD key. Hence shops like Gamestop cannot resell PC games at all, and the second-hand market for PC has long been based on private reselling. With the introduction of tying your game to a unique online account shared between several titles though, even that small opportunity has vanished.
These restrictions do not apply to consoles.
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schmea: Maybe they've killed it in your country, but internationally the reselling of PC games is alive and well. Here in Canada I can walk into any EBgames (owned by Gamestop) and browse a used PC games section that's larger than any of the individual console systems used games sections..

What province? Because I'm in Nova Scotia and they won't take used PC games, nor do they sell any at any of the GameStops and EBGames stores that I've been to in the area.
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Orryyrro: What province? Because I'm in Nova Scotia and they won't take used PC games, nor do they sell any at any of the GameStops and EBGames stores that I've been to in the area.

Here in BC they won't take them and the used ones are mixed in with the new ones. And half the used ones are in horrible shape.
And used games are easy to buy on the internet...and not just on Ebay.
Hmmm... maybe they're not taking them anymore, but are still selling old stock? I know the Park Royal Mall EBgames in Vancouver has a whole shelf devoted to them - or at least it did the last time I was in Vancouver, a few months ago.
Truthfully though the only winner in the used games market at EBgames/Gamestop is Gamestop/EBgames... I suppose the seller gets something out of it too, though usually not what they should. But for buyers, they only ever seemed to have the same games on their shelves that they sold new (so no hidden gems to be found) for *gasp* $2-3 less than full price. Awesome, that's totally worth not "voting with my pocketbook" for the games I enjoy, and for a manual that the previous owner probably read while taking a dump.
It's a sad market. I'm just a guy who loves great games, and wants to buy them when one in one of my proffered genres comes out. Instead, I find myself not buying new games because I don't like the business practices of those producing them.
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schmea: Maybe they've killed it in your country, but internationally the reselling of PC games is alive and well. Here in Canada I can walk into any EBgames (owned by Gamestop) and browse a used PC games section that's larger than any of the individual console systems used games sections..

It's dead where I live, as well. Game stores around here eliminated all of their used PC stock years ago, and no longer accept them as trades. In fact, most game stores around here either have a very small PC section (I'm talking a dozen or so different titles), or no PC section at all. Best Buy has an okay selection, but EB Games isn't worth a second thought.
In the city I used to live in, there was an EB Games nearby that had so many used PC games they didn't have space for them all, or rather, they didn't want to make space. I routinely asked them to let me dig through the big cardboard boxes full of extra stock they kept in the back, and I'd often find something interesting in there. Eventually, though, they just got rid of them all, and replaced the used PC bin with more used console games. All of the EB Games in town did the same.
Post edited May 03, 2010 by Mentalepsy
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schmea: Maybe they've killed it in your country, but internationally the reselling of PC games is alive and well. Here in Canada I can walk into any EBgames (owned by Gamestop) and browse a used PC games section that's larger than any of the individual console systems used games sections..
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Mentalepsy: It's dead where I live, as well. Game stores around here eliminated all of their used PC stock years ago, and no longer accept them as trades. In fact, most game stores around here either have a very small PC section (I'm talking a dozen or so different titles), or no PC section at all. Best Buy has an okay selection, but EB Games isn't worth a second thought.
In the city I used to live in, there was an EB Games nearby that had so many used PC games they didn't have space for them all, or rather, they didn't want to make space. I routinely asked them to let me dig through the big cardboard boxes full of extra stock they kept in the back, and I'd often find something interesting in there. Eventually, though, they just got rid of them all, and replaced the used PC bin with more used console games. All of the EB Games in town did the same.

Digital distribution, game companies like it, no "expensive" boxes to make.

I cannot change the fact they use DRM mild (if bought from them) or otherwise; especially on Gamersgate.
Avernum 6 on Gamersgate with Securom. Geneforge 5 the same.
I just used them as an example, not that they are the only ones (that is why I use "e.g." and not "i.e").
I am still a bit confused regarding their mild (I hope that is better) DRM that requires you to contact them for a new key if you uninstall and reinstall a game; as I understand the code is randomly generated each time.
Here is the thread I created there on this topic, but I still am not altogether clear on their DRM. There is no official response in that thread. At least I do not think so.

Sorry about my original response - I was a bit snippy. However, Spiderweb Software only uses DRM in the same way as GOG does - i.e. you must buy the product through them, and recieve it through them.
Other than that, there is no DRM if you buy from Spiderweb. You pay $4 for international shipping ($2 in the US) and you get a completely-DRM free install from a CD.
Now, if you want to unlock a demo version, then you must get a code from Jeff. But that is done when you order the game on CD, so you can play until the game arrives at your home.
If the GG versions have DRM, Gamersgate have added DRM for no good reason. That is GG's problem, not spiderweb.
Post edited May 03, 2010 by dougaiton
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Orryyrro: Digital distribution, game companies like it, no "expensive" boxes to make.

It's not so much that they're expensive. They're not. It's more that a very sizeable chunk of money is lost on distribution, retailers etc, which isn't the case with digital distribution.
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Orryyrro: Digital distribution, game companies like it, no "expensive" boxes to make.
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Navagon: It's not so much that they're expensive. They're not. It's more that a very sizeable chunk of money is lost on distribution, retailers etc, which isn't the case with digital distribution.

That's why I put quotation marks around expensive.
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Orryyrro: That's why I put quotation marks around expensive.

I thought you put quotation marks around it because it only amounted to a couple of quid each. Not because it was only a small fraction of how the revenue from each title was divided. My mistake. :P
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Orryyrro: That's why I put quotation marks around expensive.
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Navagon: I thought you put quotation marks around it because it only amounted to a couple of quid each. Not because it was only a small fraction of how the revenue from each title was divided. My mistake. :P

Yeah, I meant to do it to boxes, but I'm a bit tired.
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dougaiton:

I cannot change the fact they use DRM mild (if bought from them) or otherwise; especially on Gamersgate.
Avernum 6 on Gamersgate with Securom. Geneforge 5 the same.
I just used them as an example, not that they are the only ones (that is why I use "e.g." and not "i.e").
I am still a bit confused regarding their mild (I hope that is better) DRM that requires you to contact them for a new key if you uninstall and reinstall a game; as I understand the code is randomly generated each time.
Here is the thread I created there on this topic, but I still am not altogether clear on their DRM. There is no official response in that thread. At least I do not think so.

Sorry about my original response - I was a bit snippy. However, Spiderweb Software only uses DRM in the same way as GOG does - i.e. you must buy the product through them, and recieve it through them.
Other than that, there is no DRM if you buy from Spiderweb. You pay $4 for international shipping ($2 in the US) and you get a completely-DRM free install from a CD.
Now, if you want to unlock a demo version, then you must get a code from Jeff. But that is done when you order the game on CD, so you can play until the game arrives at your home.
If the GG versions have DRM, Gamersgate have added DRM for no good reason. That is GG's problem, not spiderweb.

Not quite. GG doesn't arbitrarily add DRM to games, and in fact they encourage publishers to go without. So it had to have been requested.
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dougaiton: Sorry about my original response - I was a bit snippy. However, Spiderweb Software only uses DRM in the same way as GOG does - i.e. you must buy the product through them, and recieve it through them.

No problem, and thanks for the apology. I simply figured you had bought the games and really want to support the company. Passion is not a bad thing at times, not at all! :o)
I was only going by what I knew, which was only a smattering of comments and the info from Gamersgate.
To be honest I am not sure who puts DRM on if it is on at Gamersgate (the publisher or Gamersgate). I have to think the publisher, because not all games have DRM there, but of course I do not know that for sure either.
EDIT: Silly Quote System
Post edited May 03, 2010 by Faithful