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timppu: I really don't understand people who use optical media for backups, in this day and age. They are far more cumbersome to use (try keeping your optical media archive up to date when e.g. GOG releases updates, do you reburn all the affected discs?), and in my experience burned optical media are anything but secure, no matter what kind of "high quality" optical media you use. They get bad in a few years.

I've told over and over how much of my data stored on optical CD-R and DVD-R had gone bad when I tried to recover them. Keeping the same data on some big ass hard drive is far easier (to maintain too, or to check they are still ok). Especially if it is an archive you also use and not just keep away; it is far easier for me to find some game or movie or a piece of music from one big fat hard drive, than from a pile of optical discs. Just enter a search key words in File Explorer and you find what you want instantly.

But to each his own I guess...
I see theres a need to explain myself :) people talk mainly about cds and dvds and i dont know if people have actually tried blurays. Even at entry level they are scratch proof and way more durable than cds and dvds and cheap. Ive almost never had a faulty bluray. When burning, i burn slow and verify and dont have to hang around for it. I do what i want. Play games etc. I wait for a game to be end of life which in cases like darksiders can be a couple of years, then i burn a final copy. Old dvds and cds i burn to bluray to save space. Ive had data loss on cds and dvds but ive become more careful and the last decade of Blu-ray's has made data loss negligible. Ive had hdds fail more often on me. If your using things like raid-1 and cloud and different locations then kudos to you. But optical media isnt as bad as everyone makes out
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timmy010: I see theres a need to explain myself :) people talk mainly about cds and dvds and i dont know if people have actually tried blurays. Even at entry level they are scratch proof and way more durable than cds and dvds and cheap. Ive almost never had a faulty bluray. When burning, i burn slow and verify and dont have to hang around for it. I do what i want. Play games etc. I wait for a game to be end of life which in cases like darksiders can be a couple of years, then i burn a final copy. Old dvds and cds i burn to bluray to save space. Ive had data loss on cds and dvds but ive become more careful and the last decade of Blu-ray's has made data loss negligible. Ive had hdds fail more often on me. If your using things like raid-1 and cloud and different locations then kudos to you. But optical media isnt as bad as everyone makes out
Blu-ray was introduced to the market only 12 years.
It is not long enough to determing how durable they are.
I remember when CD/DVD appeared, companies claimed that they can keep data for century.
Burned discs tends to loss data easier, so I still use hard drives as my major backup media.
Home Server
OS: FreeNAS
11 12TB Seagate IronWolf drives using RAIDZ3

Offsite
Currently rotation of 5 bay Synology and 6 bay QNAP using 12TB Seagate IronWolf drives.
(Used to have a 3rd but I gave that away for Christmas)

I've been backing up since 1990 to floppies, CD, DVD, external hard drives, 2 bay external enclosures to the current 5+ bay NAS and have never lost anything. Hard drives have been the easiest and most stable for my usage.

For those saying the Internet is a backup (Random sites on the internet not backup services on the internet) they are obviously only talking about the few things they care about and that are the most popular and as we all know popularity changes over time.

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/do_you_make_backup_for_all_your_games/page1
Post edited April 04, 2018 by DosFreak
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nightcraw1er.488: This is something discussed over and over.
Yup. I don;t like either solution. Hard drives can fail, even with a raid setup and I've seen cd/dvd media peel.

For reference, we back up our clients data every other day and keep the last 7 backups. And each of those get multiple copies saved. The hard drives are mostly new but the servers themselves are fairly old.

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DosFreak: For those saying the Internet is a backup (Random sites on the internet not backup services on the internet) they are obviously only talking about the few things they care about and that are the most popular and as we all know popularity changes over time.
Had too many online storage companies fail, some of them with little to no notice.
Post edited April 04, 2018 by drmike
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nightcraw1er.488: This is something discussed over and over.
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drmike: Yup. I don;t like either solution. Hard drives can fail, even with a raid setup and I've seen cd/dvd media peel.

For reference, we back up our clients data every other day and keep the last 7 backups. And each of those get multiple copies saved. The hard drives are mostly new but the servers themselves are fairly old.

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DosFreak: For those saying the Internet is a backup (Random sites on the internet not backup services on the internet) they are obviously only talking about the few things they care about and that are the most popular and as we all know popularity changes over time.
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drmike: Had too many online storage companies fail, some of them with little to no notice.
Indeed, ultimately I would want a tape backup monthly timeponts, unfortunately that is quite expensive at the size I have. It's cheaper to buy another raid box and set of hdd's - obviously wouldn't have just one. Currently have two and 3rd later this year, possibly a NAS in a separate place entirely.

Would never trust "online" anything, it's totally out of your control.
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nightcraw1er.488: Would never trust "online" anything, it's totally out of your control.
Why would you? Online storage is DRM'ed backup. The 'Cloud' company manages the access to your games/software/files.
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drmike: Yup. I don;t like either solution. Hard drives can fail, even with a raid setup and I've seen cd/dvd media peel.
We're talking about "backup" here - not storing stuff on 1 hard drive. How likely is it that 3 of them (or more) fail at once?
I'm pretty sure a bunch of people here are replying: "this is the one and only medium I use to store all my stuff". Backup means redundancy.
Post edited April 05, 2018 by teceem
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teceem: We're talking about "backup" here - not storing stuff on 1 hard drive. How likely is it that 3 of them (or more) fail at once?
I'm pretty sure a bunch of people here are replying: "this is the one and only medium I use to store all my stuff". Backup means redundancy.
Yes, I realize that. You may want to google 'raid fail' and start reading. It does happen. :)

Why do you think I back up data onto servers located on another continent?
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drmike: Yes, I realize that. You may want to google 'raid fail' and start reading. It does happen. :)

Why do you think I back up data onto servers located on another continent?
I know that - I wouldn't trust 1 single raid array as a single point of storage. Better = 1 internal or external (or more) HDD + 1 raid array ... containing the same data.

And off-site storage is a great addition to local backup. I don't use it because a 4 TB external server is just too expensive for me. So lets hope I never experience a serious fire. (not just concerning data - no external server will safeguard your life ;-) )
Post edited April 05, 2018 by teceem