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If I were a pirate, I'd rather remove a copy protection before uploading a drm-free version.

Why?
It's unlikely, that a game, that already has a copy protection, has another. But a drm-free version might have some identification strapped to it like watermarks - which could identify the uploader.
How can you be sure, that you have removed all watermarks?

Glad, that I dont have these kind of problems. I just buy my games here and dont copy them :-)
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rtcvb32: 1) Use/own a 8bit computer? (Atari, Apple2, Commodore 64, Sinclair, etc)
2) Do any BASIC programming (in school probably, not the same as #5)
3) Run/load software using a tape player
4) Use a 1 button joystick
5) Enter a game/program from a magazine (Could have borrowed a book from the library too with BASIC games, usually text only and not system specific)
6) Play/own an NES and games? (or at least rent them when video stores still existed)
7) configure your autoexec.bat or config.sys files to get games to run in MS-DOS?
8) Find shareware games were your best friend? (MS-DOS)
9) Have to use pkzip to extract files.
10) Used Windows 3.11 to any degree
1) Yes. C64 (followed by a beloved Amiga 500) as well as an old Tandy console but can't remember the model.
2) Yes.
3) Y................E..............S...........
4) Yes, don't need more to play Buggy Boy (C64) or Sensible Soccer (A500).
5) Yes and, as far as I can remember, never succeeded in making one of those compile correctly.
6) Yes, not my NES (I had a SNES). Even had the "chance" to play with Rob.
7) Yes. And nobody tells me it wasn't fun. I mean, if those existed at the time, we should have gotten an achievement just for starting the game with the sound, the mouse and the VESA driver.
8) Doom... Quake...
9) Did that too. Kids are spoiled these days ;)
10) Yes. Best MS OS, it's a shame that GOG and MS do not support it anymore. That's the best gaming platform ever... I mean, it gave Minesweeper and Solitaire to the mass.

Edit: typo
Post edited October 11, 2019 by cal74
GoG doesn't cause piracy. Pirates cause piracy.

Regardless of how GoG operates, there will be people who do not respect IP rights and who will find a way to pirate games. If anything, GoG reduces piracy as it means that people who want to own something DRM free (rather than relying on Valve staying in business to maintain access to their installers) have the opportunity to spend their money to buy what they want.
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rtcvb32: Perhaps we should have a survey. Anyone 30-40 years old, did you:
I'm 45...

1) Use/own a 8bit computer? (Atari, Apple2, Commodore 64, Sinclair, etc)

Commodore 116, then 64.

2) Do any BASIC programming (in school probably, not the same as #5)

Self-taught with my C116, then C64. Later Assembler on the 64. On Amiga started Pascal... I'm a software developer now, so it wasn't for nothing :-)

3) Run/load software using a tape player

The 116 had only a tape drive, the 64 had a tape drive and floppy disk drive (later two, for copying).

4) Use a 1 button joystick

Yes. On the Commodores, and the Atari 2600.

5) Enter a game/program from a magazine
(Could have borrowed a book from the library too with BASIC games, usually text only and not system specific)

Magazines. That's how I learned Assembler.

6) Play/own an NES and games? (or at least rent them when video stores still existed)

No never.

7) configure your autoexec.bat or config.sys files to get games to run in MS-DOS?

Of course. I created elaborate boot menus on system startup to max out EMS or XMS and the low memory for every possible occasion. Strike Commander CD was about the hardest to get to run, because you needed all the drivers loaded...

8) Find shareware games were your best friend? (MS-DOS)

I was more into shareware on the Amiga. Lots of magazines with disks. I always found the DOS games pretty primitive (excluding games like DOOM of course).

9) Have to use pkzip to extract files.

ARJ was more common in the beginning. But I think I've used almost all archivers there are at some point.

10) Used Windows 3.11 to any degree

My first DOS PC came with it. Was of course used for work.
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toxicTom: Self-taught with my C116, then C64. Later Assembler on the 64. On Amiga started Pascal... I'm a software developer now, so it wasn't for nothing :-)
What kind of soft do you do? Is it the kind of stuff you want to do or just something someone else wants done?
Post edited October 11, 2019 by clarry
Fun!
Perhaps we should have a survey. Anyone 30-40 years old, did you:
1) Use/own a 8bit computer? (Atari, Apple2, Commodore 64, Sinclair, etc) yes
2) Do any BASIC programming (in school probably, not the same as #5) yes
3) Run/load software using a tape player yes
4) Use a 1 button joystick yes (Sid Meier's Pirates! excelled with it)
5) Enter a game/program from a magazine (Could have borrowed a book from the library too with BASIC games, usually text only and not system specific) although yes, I never got any working. Typos were inevitable.
6) Play/own an NES and games? (or at least rent them when video stores still existed) yes
7) configure your autoexec.bat or config.sys files to get games to run in MS-DOS? Yes
8) Find shareware games were your best friend? (MS-DOS) yes
9) Have to use pkzip to extract files. Yes
10) Used Windows 3.11 to any degree yes
GOG is the sole reason why I'm still part of the PC gaming community.

I hate all digital and I really miss owning physical copy of my games either in big box or CD/DVD case.

Maybe I'm just too old for this stuff but when I spend money for a digital game I feel like I'm not owning anything, that I'm wasting money in something that has no value and could vanish at any time.

At GOG.com they are making extra efforts to make digital worth it with real ownership, tons of free goodies, a NO DRM policy and overall being more respectfull towards gamers than anywhere else.

I can't recall the last time I've pirated a game but without GOG I probably would have stopped spending money on video games for a very long time...
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clarry: What kind of soft do you do? Is it the kind of stuff you want to do or just something someone else wants done?
GIS mostly, for public authorities. It's fun, and every project comes with it's own little challenges, no it never gets too boring.
Of course I'd rather develop games, but at least in Germany there are few opportunities and (last I looked) the pay is not good enough to feed a family. Too many enthusiasts I guess.
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aRealCyborg: So what I am saying is GoG a big cause of pirating?
1. Statistically speaking its inevitable that some of the people who get annoyed at GOG for something (like censorship, regional pricing, giving up other core values, having games disappear from library, ...) will "pirate" something as revenge.
2. GOG games are easier/safer to "pirate" than Steam games. This inevitably causes some "piracy" which otherwise wouldnt have happened.
Whether this is a "big" cause - I dont think the question even matters. For some developers its simply an "ego" thing. They somehow believe they have the right to dictate the whole of society whatever they want with DRM. (IMO this is "selective justice" which is no justice at all.) For other developers its just a money thing which leads to the next question:
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aRealCyborg: And how much of a lose would a developer have if any if he puts it on GoG?
This should rather have been worded as some kind of net result question. I dont have direct data but big publishers probably have some. Obviously they expect to make money per GOG else they wouldnt be selling their games here. How much of this "make money" part is due to PR and how much due to them directly getting money they wouldnt otherwise have gotten I dont know. Also note that GOG is often more expensive - especially in comparison with cheap bundle sales elsewhere - so a sale here counts for more.
Also: From (big) developer perspective there is probably a big difference between (for example old vs new) games.
Post edited October 11, 2019 by Zrevnur
A pity rtcvb32's questionnare is only aimed at young people.

Of course it is yes to most of those questions.
No, gog is not the cause. Piracy existed long before gog and will exist after.
I would argue that gog is generating customers who wouldn't buy games otherwise because of drm on other platforms (like me)
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Zrevnur: For some developers its simply an "ego" thing. They somehow believe they have the right to dictate the whole of society whatever they want with DRM. (IMO this is "selective justice" which is no justice at all.) For other developers its just a money thing
For some I think it's just irrational knee-jerk like reaction to the idea of someone doing something with something they own.

I mean if you've ever watched a five-year-old kid throw a tantrum whenever a sibling or visiting kid approaches and tries to touch any of their toys, you know what I mean. The toy's owner kid rushes to grab their toy away from the offender, screams "don't take it it's mine!" Thankfully not all kids are like that but from what I've seen, it's surprisingly common.

Another manifestation of this is on the internet on forms where people (kids..) learn to code or do arts or stuff. Like for example, on game development forums, you always find cringeworthy 13-year-olds announcing their new super cool game project. Of course, they have nothing to show except something like a main menu drawn in paint, where the most outstanding element is a copyright sign followed by their nickname and big bold letters "COPYING IS FORBIDDEN" or something equally silly. I wish I were joking...

I don't think there's much rational thought behind any of that, it's just something they do because 1) they can, 2) they're used to it and are just (perhaps subconsciously?) mimicking the stuff that big corporations put in every splash screen, intro page, back cover, etc., 3) they never questioned it.
Post edited October 11, 2019 by clarry
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Cadaver747: I did all the above, except that finding shareware games weren't my best friend. I literately spent hours downloading them from BBS praying for the stable connection, it was the worst experience.
That wasn't even the best part! The best part was using a 1200 or 2400 baud modem to download a driver from a companies BBS, which of course was long distance across the country. Praying that the patchwork of various transmission protocols were available to whatever term program you were using, and that the BBS wasn't using some outdated version or newer version then you were using. And of course since long distance costs were insane, the number of protocols supporting CRC, or any type of checksums were only used at a local level. Are we enjoying the file corruption yet? I bet we are!

And...AND...that the driver for whatever protocol you were using might not actually load because it required access to himem or various parts of upper memory areas, and could only be loaded on a clean boot, or even in worst cases could only be loaded before your autoexec got thrown into the fray.

Don't miss those days, also don't miss the days when dipswitches and jumpers were required to make PC's work either, or requiring a handy flowchart for I/O and IRQ channels along with what hardware most commonly used what.
GOG is definitely a cause of pirating.

GOG regularly plunders my bank account.
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Themken: A pity rtcvb32's questionnare is only aimed at young people.

Of course it is yes to most of those questions.
Bemoaning the lack of questions on punch cards?

As to the thread topic I think the scene is at least somewhat concerned with showing off skills, purchasing and packaging a drm-free game doesn't really do much in that regard so I assume that is part of the reason even same day released games will still have the scene release a steam copy with the steam drm dealt with.
Given the crappy service provided by some devs with regards to updates I know I've sometimes wondered about grabbing a scene update and trying to apply it to my GOG install so another possible reason the pirate copies are steam rips is that they have more reliable updates.