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mutishev: to slash11
Ok I am sorry for the 10 minutes, my mistake.

Have you ever thought that the problem might be in you and not the game. This sort of games might not be for you.
So please play the games you like and stop bashing the games you don't like and calling them broken.
I for my self don't find any of the things you mentioned as broken.

It's funny how you found out for 2 hours that the game is broken and even you were able to find out what mods could fix it. :)

This reminds me of a guy from Stalker forums, who just have bought SoC and asked for advice what mods to use. He didn't even know what the game is but he was already believing that it is broken.
I think you started to play Oblivion with the same attitude. :)
Mystral did a good job to put it together. I like open world games with freedom to approach. Just there is no freedom in oblivion. Well i installed the mods with tips from other players...
It depends what experience you have with pc games.
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mystral: I still don't understand how Bethesda could have thought how their broken level scaling was a good idea, and how the same dev team could have produced a very good exploration-based RPG one time, and such a broken, boring game the next.
How do you suggest to make a huge game world, not one time shot, without leveled monsters? :)
If they don't level there is nothing to do combat wise in the already visited areas.
The game doesn't push you to go further in the story and throw at you appropriate level monsters until you finish it. You are free to go anywhere, freedom sacrafice some game elements.
I prefer to have leveling with me monsters so I can have fun fights all the time instead of locked regions because I am too weak to go there now.

but yes, I understand you, everyone have taste. I just hope Bethesda to stay oriented to the sand box play in the future too. We have plenty of other story driven games but so few open world games.
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mutishev: This reminds me of a guy from Stalker forums, who just have bought SoC and asked for advice what mods to use. He didn't even know what the game is but he was already believing that it is broken.
To be fair Stalker is not known for being one of the most polished games out there, it's a great game but unless you want to put up with broken quests and bugs modding it before playing is a good idea, i should have done it too.
Post edited June 08, 2011 by WBGhiro
How did this evolve into "bash/defend Oblivion?" Oh, right, Bethesda thread, my mistake.

Honestly? I like Oblivion. Morrowind is, admittedly, the better game in most respects, but the controls and combat in Oblivion (both on console and on PC) are much better, at least to me. On top of that, Morrowind always just felt very morose and empty to me. The first time I walked under the mushroom trees during a rain storm was amazing, yes, but if you think the caves and dungeons in Oblivion are repetitive I don't see why Morrowind's are any better, given that they're made in the exact same way. Oblivion's world might have only had one theme across its entirety (which was a mistake,) but at least it felt like more of a living world.

I'm personally looking forward to Skyrim. What I've heard about the menu system both scares me and excites me at the same time, as I trust Bethesda to give us something spectacular but I'm a realist enough not to expect it to be fully functional. Dual wielding is less of a great thing for me, but the way it is to affect magic does indeed sound like something to look forward to, and the grittier world should be something to behold.
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mutishev: to slash11
Ok I am sorry for the 10 minutes, my mistake.

Have you ever thought that the problem might be in you and not the game. This sort of games might not be for you.
So please play the games you like and stop bashing the games you don't like and calling them broken.
I for my self don't find any of the things you mentioned as broken.

It's funny how you found out for 2 hours that the game is broken and even you were able to find out what mods could fix it. :)

This reminds me of a guy from Stalker forums, who just have bought SoC and asked for advice what mods to use. He didn't even know what the game is but he was already believing that it is broken.
I think you started to play Oblivion with the same attitude. :)
Get real. The guy is quite justifiably annoyed, just as I was, at having spent 50 pounds or however much it cost me to buy a broken game. At release Oblivion was ridiculously full of game breaking bugs, not to mention all the other annoying, but not game breaking ones. We didn't get stability, but hey who cares if you can get horse armor instead if you spend another fiver. I shouldn't have to mod my game to make it playable, and they shouldn't spend time on developing DLC that was omitted from the final release in order to cash in some more, when the game hadn't even been properly beta tested. Puke-worthy customer treatment.

Like I said, I loved Morrowind but absolutely hated Oblivion, for which I had good justifications. Sure, maybe it's not the game for me, or for slash11, but saying that we are at fault as opposed to the game isn't exactly accurate. I mean, how far would you extend that?
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mystral: I still don't understand how Bethesda could have thought how their broken level scaling was a good idea, and how the same dev team could have produced a very good exploration-based RPG one time, and such a broken, boring game the next.
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mutishev: How do you suggest to make a huge game world, not one time shot, without leveled monsters? :)
If they don't level there is nothing to do combat wise in the already visited areas.
The game doesn't push you to go further in the story and throw at you appropriate level monsters until you finish it. You are free to go anywhere, freedom sacrafice some game elements.
I prefer to have leveling with me monsters so I can have fun fights all the time instead of locked regions because I am too weak to go there now.

but yes, I understand you, everyone have taste. I just hope Bethesda to stay oriented to the sand box play in the future too. We have plenty of other story driven games but so few open world games.
How many open world games did you play ?
I know many open world games that do not have leveled monsters and still work very good. The main reason behind leveled monsters: It is little to no work ^^.
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mystral: I still don't understand how Bethesda could have thought how their broken level scaling was a good idea, and how the same dev team could have produced a very good exploration-based RPG one time, and such a broken, boring game the next.
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mutishev: How do you suggest to make a huge game world, not one time shot, without leveled monsters? :)
If they don't level there is nothing to do combat wise in the already visited areas.
The game doesn't push you to go further in the story and throw at you appropriate level monsters until you finish it. You are free to go anywhere, freedom sacrafice some game elements.
I prefer to have leveling with me monsters so I can have fun fights all the time instead of locked regions because I am too weak to go there now.

but yes, I understand you, everyone have taste. I just hope Bethesda to stay oriented to the sand box play in the future too. We have plenty of other story driven games but so few open world games.
For the open-world games without level-scaling and still way more interesting and challenging combat than Oblivion, see Gothic. Or Risen. Or Divinity 2. Or even both Two Worlds.
It's perfectly possible to do it, plenty of games have managed it, Bethesda was just too lazy to design their game around it, because it obviously takes more time and effort to assign a level to every enemy type than to give them the PC's level.
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slash11: Skyrim can only be better than oblivion. Since oblivion is already the worst PC game i have ever played.
Never played unpatched Hellgate: London? At least Oblivion works.
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mutishev: This reminds me of a guy from Stalker forums, who just have bought SoC and asked for advice what mods to use. He didn't even know what the game is but he was already believing that it is broken.
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WBGhiro: To be fair Stalker is not known for being one of the most polished games out there, it's a great game but unless you want to put up with broken quests and bugs modding it before playing is a good idea, i should have done it too.
It was broken years ago, but the bad mouths keep telling this to new players. ;)
The third Stalker has not one game breaking bug :) To give more info the guy wanted weapon overhauls even without shooting with one ingame weapon. When told to try and play vanilla, he insisted that the game is broken and need fixes. :)
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slash11: Skyrim can only be better than oblivion. Since oblivion is already the worst PC game i have ever played.
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Whiteblade999: Never played unpatched Hellgate: London? At least Oblivion works.
No i did not try it. Bugs can be patched, broken gameplay not..
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mystral: For the open-world games without level-scaling and still way more interesting and challenging combat than Oblivion, see Gothic. Or Risen. Or Divinity 2. Or even both Two Worlds.
It's perfectly possible to do it, plenty of games have managed it, Bethesda was just too lazy to design their game around it, because it obviously takes more time and effort to assign a level to every enemy type than to give them the PC's level.
The only game compared to Oblivion open world mentioned by you is Two Worlds even thou monsters don't respawn there and there are "locked" areas where you die in seconds if you enter.
Divinity 2 is linear, pseudo open world game.

I want to say that those games are one time, play through story, do some side quests and repeat the process, Bethesdas games, can be played as long as you wish, you can revisit caves, towns... Thats why monsters level with you or you will one shot them when you get stronger.
I can't see sand box game without some sort of scalling, I bet Skyrim will have one too.
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mystral: For the open-world games without level-scaling and still way more interesting and challenging combat than Oblivion, see Gothic. Or Risen. Or Divinity 2. Or even both Two Worlds.
It's perfectly possible to do it, plenty of games have managed it, Bethesda was just too lazy to design their game around it, because it obviously takes more time and effort to assign a level to every enemy type than to give them the PC's level.
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mutishev: The only game compared to Oblivion open world mentioned by you is Two Worlds even thou monsters don't respawn there and there are "locked" areas where you die in seconds if you enter.
Divinity 2 is linear, pseudo open world game.

I want to say that those games are one time, play through story, do some side quests and repeat the process, Bethesdas games, can be played as long as you wish, you can revisit caves, towns... Thats why monsters level with you or you will one shot them when you get stronger.
I can't see sand box game without some sort of scalling, I bet Skyrim will have one too.
This is now a myth put forth by you.
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slash11: This is now a myth put forth by you.
Well we shall see. :) Either should have scalling to level or monsters should be changed with new every few levels.
If they don't do that, there wont be any need to go visit previous areas of the world, because mobs there are too weak. :)
I am just guessing, haven't paid attention if they mentioned how they are going to solve the problem this time.
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slash11: This is now a myth put forth by you.
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mutishev: Well we shall see. :) Either should have scalling to level or monsters should be changed with new every few levels.
If they don't do that, there wont be any need to go visit previous areas of the world, because mobs there are too weak. :)
I am just guessing, haven't paid attention if they mentioned how they are going to solve the problem this time.
It can get only better. Well i will not bother with it anyway.
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mystral: For the open-world games without level-scaling and still way more interesting and challenging combat than Oblivion, see Gothic. Or Risen. Or Divinity 2. Or even both Two Worlds.
It's perfectly possible to do it, plenty of games have managed it, Bethesda was just too lazy to design their game around it, because it obviously takes more time and effort to assign a level to every enemy type than to give them the PC's level.
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mutishev: The only game compared to Oblivion open world mentioned by you is Two Worlds even thou monsters don't respawn there and there are "locked" areas where you die in seconds if you enter.
Divinity 2 is linear, pseudo open world game.

I want to say that those games are one time, play through story, do some side quests and repeat the process, Bethesdas games, can be played as long as you wish, you can revisit caves, towns... Thats why monsters level with you or you will one shot them when you get stronger.
I can't see sand box game without some sort of scalling, I bet Skyrim will have one too.
Just because some areas are too hard for you to beat at first (which is the way it should be imo) does not mean the game isn't open world. They just prefer having a realistic world to satisfying people who want to be able to go everywhere (including the final boss dungeon I suppose) from the beginning without suffering any consequence for it.
In a game with a levelling system where you're supposed to get stronger, it just doesn't make sense.

The Bethesda's games need level scaling part is wrong. Morrowind wasn't like that (it had level scaling but it was limited, only affected which monsters would spawn, and it didn't go past lvl 20) nor was Arena or Daggerfall.
In fact only Obliviion features that kind of level scaling, they scaled it down for Fallout 3, so you're probably the only one who though it was a good idea.

Second, I'm sorry but to me monster respawning is a bad mechanic unless it only occurs in some areas for reasons that are clearly explained.
What you want seems closer to me to a single player MMORPG than anything else. Basically the player never makes any real difference to the world he's playing in, since no monsters will ever die for good.

And yet, guess what? MMORPGs don't have level scaling either. You can still play them pretty much forever if you want to.