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slash11: If new monsters spawn in the area then it is not level scaling. Just take it as simple as that: Level scaling takes away any incentive for character progression ( a core aspect of a RPG if you ask me)
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mutishev: Ok you are right and I am wrong ;) It's not level scaling :D if you keep the same model and scale it to the level of player is level scaling, but if you spawn new to the player level, one with different skin is not level scaling. :)
Well that's not the definition of respawning, that is the definition of level scaling. You are obviously confused. If you remove a monster and replace it with a stronger one that is level scaling, despite the fact that the monster will have to be "spawned" into the game. It's not that difficult really.

The respawning that I'm referring to is the spawning of monsters into specific areas for exp grinding purposes, if that is required. Have you ever played the Gothic series? The games consist of Acts, and when you progress into a new act, among other things, new monsters spawn in old areas, in order to help you get a little more experience. They aren't necessarily scaled - a wolf will always give you the same amount of experience, and wolves will spawn in the woods. None of the spawning has anything to do with PC level, but rather with the area in question.

However, ultimately it is possible to kill everything in the game, should you wish to do so. I would not be against a mechanic that would allow you to have additional secluded areas in which you would have more enemies spawning, and you can grind them for more experience, if you so wish.

This is however completely different from level scaling.

Did I clear that up for you?

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FraterPerdurabo: Plenty of open world RPGs don't have level scaling, prime example being Morrowind.
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Taleroth: Morrowind has level scaling.

There seems to be an awkward redefinition of level scaling to "exactly like Oblivion has" which bothers me. In Morrowind, you'd find stronger monsters and the frequency of monsters changes to scale with your levels. Cliffracers were notorious for popping up with more as you leveled. And the types of Daedra you encountered in the wild would weight towards the stronger.

The problem with Oblivion was that its level scaling was bad. Most people don't even recognize when its working in games that do it well.
That is actually true, but it only affects the additional monsters that spawn, as I also specified in my post. The vast majority of the enemies in the game are unaffected. A Mudcrab won't turn into a Daedra just because you're higher level.
Post edited June 08, 2011 by FraterPerdurabo
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mutishev: It was broken years ago, but the bad mouths keep telling this to new players. ;)
The third Stalker has not one game breaking bug :) To give more info the guy wanted weapon overhauls even without shooting with one ingame weapon. When told to try and play vanilla, he insisted that the game is broken and need fixes. :)
oh my bad, i thought you were talking about the first stalker game, i always get the acronyms wrong. why don't they number their games like everyone else.
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mutishev: Ok you are right and I am wrong ;) It's not level scaling :D if you keep the same model and scale it to the level of player is level scaling, but if you spawn new to the player level, one with different skin is not level scaling. :)
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FraterPerdurabo: Well that's not the definition of respawning, that is the definition of level scaling. You are obviously confused. If you remove a monster and replace it with a stronger one that is level scaling, despite the fact that the monster will have to be "spawned" into the game. It's not that difficult really.

The respawning that I'm referring to is the spawning of monsters into specific areas for exp grinding purposes, if that is required. Have you ever played the Gothic series? The games consist of Acts, and when you progress into a new act, among other things, new monsters spawn in old areas, in order to help you get a little more experience. They aren't necessarily scaled - a wolf will always give you the same amount of experience, and wolves will spawn in the woods. None of the spawning has anything to do with PC level, but rather with the area in question.

However, ultimately it is possible to kill everything in the game, should you wish to do so. I would not be against a mechanic that would allow you to have additional secluded areas in which you would have more enemies spawning, and you can grind them for more experience, if you so wish.

This is however completely different from level scaling.

Did I clear that up for you?
I understand you very well, just we are thinking of different things.
It's not about the grind, it's about that in Beth games there is no Acts, you are free to do as you wish most of the time, to go anywhere like in real world..
One can play after the end, to just do unfinished side quests or just role play and by role play I mean RP events. Pretend to be what ever you wish and live his life. To do this you need monsters and enemies and not only in some areas but in the whole world.

This is impossible if the monsters not respawn or if they are outleveled eventually.
Some guys REALLY (!!!) need to learn about getting over it.....

Oblivion is 5 years old, yet on every board or every thread opened about it, there's ALWAYS at least one guy trying to tell you just how much this game sucked and that you shouldn't bother.

It's one thing to pick / paying a game that doesn't work for you - it happens to all of us. Still holding a grudge against it because of that even several years later is another.
It's okay if you didn't liked it. It's okay to feel you've thrown out your money. It's NOT okay to try shoving your years-old opinion down others throat.

291 hours played on my Steam-version. Which is about 2 years old, bought in a sale. Does not include the time I've put into my retail version.
Post edited June 08, 2011 by Siannah
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FraterPerdurabo: Well that's not the definition of respawning, that is the definition of level scaling. You are obviously confused. If you remove a monster and replace it with a stronger one that is level scaling, despite the fact that the monster will have to be "spawned" into the game. It's not that difficult really.

The respawning that I'm referring to is the spawning of monsters into specific areas for exp grinding purposes, if that is required. Have you ever played the Gothic series? The games consist of Acts, and when you progress into a new act, among other things, new monsters spawn in old areas, in order to help you get a little more experience. They aren't necessarily scaled - a wolf will always give you the same amount of experience, and wolves will spawn in the woods. None of the spawning has anything to do with PC level, but rather with the area in question.

However, ultimately it is possible to kill everything in the game, should you wish to do so. I would not be against a mechanic that would allow you to have additional secluded areas in which you would have more enemies spawning, and you can grind them for more experience, if you so wish.

This is however completely different from level scaling.

Did I clear that up for you?
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mutishev: I understand you very well, just we are thinking of different things.
It's not about the grind, it's about that in Beth games there is no Acts, you are free to do as you wish most of the time, to go anywhere like in real world..
One can play after the end, to just do unfinished side quests or just role play and by role play I mean RP events. Pretend to be what ever you wish and live his life. To do this you need monsters and enemies and not only in some areas but in the whole world.

This is impossible if the monsters not respawn or if they are outleveled eventually.
It's not impossible. It worked fine in Morrowind, as I already said about three times.
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mutishev: It was broken years ago, but the bad mouths keep telling this to new players. ;)
The third Stalker has not one game breaking bug :) To give more info the guy wanted weapon overhauls even without shooting with one ingame weapon. When told to try and play vanilla, he insisted that the game is broken and need fixes. :)
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WBGhiro: oh my bad, i thought you were talking about the first stalker game, i always get the acronyms wrong. why don't they number their games like everyone else.
No my bad actually :) He has bought the bundle with the first game and the last one and he wanted mods for both. He had advice to play them vanilla first, the only mod that doesn't ruin the vanilla is the Complete one, it makes the game looks better and fixes the bugs only, no tweaks and gameplay changes. He wanted more mods and I wondered why, because when you squish the bugs, the games are awesome even vanilla. :)

FraterPerdurabo ok, I don't think we can understand eachother.
Post edited June 08, 2011 by mutishev
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Whiteblade999: Never played unpatched Hellgate: London? At least Oblivion works.
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slash11: No i did not try it. Bugs can be patched, broken gameplay not..
Oblivion actually had pretty good combat as far as those types of games go. What killed the game (leveling system and bad female models) could be modded while Hellgate London was left for dead. Like these guys gave no support to people who played offline, patched it multiple times for online only, then went under never fixing the singleplayer. I would take a game that can be fixed through mods (check out Nehrim for what I mean if you don't want to mess with the vanilla game) over something dead in the water.
Post edited June 08, 2011 by Whiteblade999
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Siannah: Oblivion is 5 years old, yet on every board or every thread opened about it, there's ALWAYS at least one guy trying to tell you just how much this game sucked and that you shouldn't bother.
QFT ... sigh ... Oblivion had problems but mods fixed most if not all of them.

I have been hearing about how sucky the latest Bethesda game is compared to its predecessors ever since I bought Morrowind. According to some Daggerfall was so much better than Morrowind; and then when Oblivion came out Morrowind was so much betther than Oblivion. And of course the Fallout 3 sux arguments. I have had a blast playing all of them.
I found a good review for oblivion on gamespot:

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/theelderscrollsivoblivion/player_review.html?id=701617&tag=player-reviews%3Bcontinue%3B1
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slash11: I found a good review for oblivion on gamespot:
You're still on the crusade I see. Well, it was barely worth it for a good laugh. I could point out where he continues to see problems where the solution IS available with mods, but I just don't find it worth my time.
Just a few pearls I'd like to pick out:
- lack of armor sets / styles / variations - 1780 available files in that category on tesnexus alone
- "the game has no end. When you finish all your quests, that's it. You still exist." - how did gamers react when the same Bethesda put a real ending into Fallout 3? They wanted to remove it and being able to keep wandering around. D'oh.
- in his last paragraph he (finally) managed to talk about mods. Only to claim that "you don't really need any other mods. They can't save this game." - 22996 total files on tesnexus says something different. 'nuff said.

Instead I'd like to point to Metacritic with 762 user ratings giving an overall score of 7.7

Again, if you don't like it - too bad for you. If you put money on the table and regret it - sorry to hear that. Trying to force your opinion down my throat - GTFO.
Post edited June 08, 2011 by Siannah
Bethesda at least makes an effort to patch/fix their games. It may take expansions or a lot of patches to do it, but they do make an effort. And if they don't, they give the community the tools to fix the issues themselves. Not many developers empower their fanbase like Bethesda does, so while you may hate their games at launch, chances are after six months there will be mods that will completely overhaul virtually every system in their games.

I have hopes for Skyrim. I may not buy it at launch (I'm adverse to paying 49.99 or 59.99 or whatever it's going for), but I know when I eventually do get it even if the game is broken the fanbase will have taken up the mantle themselves.
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prakaa: Stop Oblivion hatin'. Might not have been the game EVERYONE wanted, but for me, it's on my top 5...
Morrowind was such a better RPG experience then Oblivion... Just Saying.

That and I didn't have to mod the darn game to be enjoyable.
Post edited June 08, 2011 by Arianus
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KavazovAngel: These posters are next to each other at E3. How lovely from Arrowhead and Paradox. :D
See the pictures!

First:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/11/june/skypost1.jpg

Second:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/11/june/magpost1.jpg

EDIT: Credits to RPS for this.
1/2 man, 1/2 dragon, 1/2 wizard! Not only is Magicka > Skyrim, it seems it's also bigger than mathematics, logic and the universe. Discussing any other game is simply blasphemy, Magicka demands your absolute, unending devotion! Bow down before the lord almighty!

(Yeah ok, I'm getting sleepy. For the record, I've never played Magicka, seeing as it's on Steam and I hate Steam, but it seems like a really fun game, wish it was available DRM-Free)
^

Finally someone took the time to see the pictures! :)
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StingingVelvet: In related vastly over-blown exaggerations, I got a paper-cut today and I think I might die.
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slash11: Is not an over-blown exaggeration for me. Oblivion just makes no sense as a game.
You must have never played Daikatana or MoO3, seriously, calling Oblivion the worst game of all time is laughable.