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PoSSeSSeDCoW: You make a game, sell a few copies of it. It turns out 50% of those copies have been resold 4 or 5 times. You don't see any of that money. How is that fair? Shouldn't game developers be able to get money from people buying games legally?

When eb/gamestop make more money off a game than the developer/publisher then there's a problem with the system
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ceemdee: It's perfectly fair that they don't get the money from used games. Should an author get money every time a used book is sold?
However it's also perfectly fair for them to create DLC that cannot be resold. We just have to hope that companies don't start to get too greedy and compromise the quality of the game (purposely remove stuff) in order to sell DLC.

That's largely what I was referring to. I don't think that EA should get a slice of the pie every time a game is sold, but I see no problem with people not being able to sell optional, digital content.
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Delixe: DLC's are always optional and are in no way required by the game. I see no issue with the free DLC given as an incentive to encourage people to buy the game, the only people who cant get that DLC are those that bought it second hand (The publisher didn't see that money) and pirates. As for the DLC you buy well if you like the game enough to buy all that DLC then surely you wont be selling it anytime soon?

People that buy the game second hand can still get the "bonus" DLC, they just have to pay for it. If you buy the game new that specific piece of DLC for free.
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Gundato: You are at an airport and there is a gunman with one hostage. He's using her for cover, and he's almost to a plane. You're a hundred feet away. What do you do?

Shoot the hostage. ;) (Then shoot Keanu Reeves to do the world a favor).
Post edited January 22, 2010 by DarrkPhoenix
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PoSSeSSeDCoW: You make a game, sell a few copies of it. It turns out 50% of those copies have been resold 4 or 5 times. You don't see any of that money. How is that fair? Shouldn't game developers be able to get money from people buying games legally?
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Aliasalpha: When eb/gamestop make more money off a game than the developer/publisher then there's a problem with the system

Its like the used text books from college. The Publisher never sees any money after the initial sale so the Price is extreemly high. This also allows the used market to keep the used price fairly high. Now they sell DLC that can not be sold with the used game. They
may be out the origonal purchase but the used buyer still can buy the DLC from the publisher --> new money stream for not finishing a game in the first place -- nice Idea.
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Gundato: I bought a hot dog from a cart last week and ate it. I don't want it anymore. What should I do? :p
I bought a magazine from a store and read it. I don't want it anymore (just to make returning it even more questionable, let's pretend it is a naughty magazine). What should I do? :p
You are at an airport and there is a gunman with one hostage. He's using her for cover, and he's almost to a plane. You're a hundred feet away. What do you do?

A hot dog doesn't have any resell value once it's eaten. A game played through does, a DLC played through does (except those from EA now - that's exactly the point you're missing).
A bought magazine does have a resell value, even a naughty one (proper condition given). Returning it? Now who said anything about returning?
You either didn't get it or simply didn't wanted to.
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PoSSeSSeDCoW: You make a game, sell a few copies of it. It turns out 50% of those copies have been resold 4 or 5 times. You don't see any of that money. How is that fair? Shouldn't game developers be able to get money from people buying games legally?

Are we BUYING or are we RENTING those games? Buying = I own it, I resell it. Renting = developer / publisher owns it, they resell it.
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Aliasalpha: When eb/gamestop make more money off a game than the developer/publisher then there's a problem with the system

Your initial price is too high because you're too greedy? :)
I remember new VHS movies sold at the same price games currently are. It took two major releases (Batman / Rainman initially released for half the price) to finally lower it. I remember new music CDs being sold 1/3 higher then now.
The music and movie industry learned, the games industry didn't. Not in the last 20 years, not even with cutting out 2-3 resellers (digital distribution same price as retail). Instead they come up with more clever ways to get a bigger cut. And now they try to get their hands on the used market too?
I'm not that eager to give that rights away, even though I rarely (if at all) sell my games used.
Post edited January 23, 2010 by Siannah
DVD's. CD's and Games are still priced too high. It's the publishers realizing that their usefulness is slowly coming to an end and they want to milk as much as possible while they can. As for DLC let them, it removes their argument that piracy is killing them which would mean they would have to start lowering the prices of games or they have to find another excuse for high prices.
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Gundato: I bought a hot dog from a cart last week and ate it. I don't want it anymore. What should I do? :p
I bought a magazine from a store and read it. I don't want it anymore (just to make returning it even more questionable, let's pretend it is a naughty magazine). What should I do? :p
You are at an airport and there is a gunman with one hostage. He's using her for cover, and he's almost to a plane. You're a hundred feet away. What do you do?
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Siannah: A hot dog doesn't have any resell value once it's eaten. A game played through does, a DLC played through does (except those from EA now - that's exactly the point you're missing).
A bought magazine does have a resell value, even a naughty one (proper condition given). Returning it? Now who said anything about returning?
You either didn't get it or simply didn't wanted to.

Agreed, a magazine can have resale value. But there really isn't that huge of a market for resold magazines (especially because you can order back-issues). Sure there are collectors, but people collect everything.
The point is, not being able to resell things is not something brand spanking new.
You either didn't get it, or simply didn't want to :p. I would have directly quoted, but the grammatical error in there made me feel dirty :p
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Gundato: Agreed, a magazine can have resale value. But there really isn't that huge of a market for resold magazines (especially because you can order back-issues). Sure there are collectors, but people collect everything.
The point is, not being able to resell things is not something brand spanking new.
You either didn't get it, or simply didn't want to :p. I would have directly quoted, but the grammatical error in there made me feel dirty :p

You're talking about not being able to resell something because no one wants it, not because it's legally impossible to resell. You obviously didn't get it (although I'm betting you didn't want to).
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Gundato: Agreed, a magazine can have resale value. But there really isn't that huge of a market for resold magazines (especially because you can order back-issues). Sure there are collectors, but people collect everything.
The point is, not being able to resell things is not something brand spanking new.
You either didn't get it, or simply didn't want to :p. I would have directly quoted, but the grammatical error in there made me feel dirty :p
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ceemdee: You're talking about not being able to resell something because no one wants it, not because it's legally impossible to resell. You obviously didn't get it (although I'm betting you didn't want to).

Let's say you find out that there was a really cool article on a game you want in one of the generic game mags. You decide you want to buy an issue, but you only found out a few months later.
What are you more likely to do: Order a back issue or go check the newspaper for someone who is selling the mag because they are done with it?
The entire point is: Being able to resell something is not this unalienable right that some people seem to think we have. Lots of things can't really be resold.
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Andy_Panthro: I'm just waiting for the crossover games, Mass Age and Dragon Effect.
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Delixe: Thankfully it's EA and not Square Enix or Shepperd and Morrigan would already have their places booked in Kingdom Hearts.
Also, Male Shepard and Female Shepard would only be discernable because of clothing.
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Gundato: Let's say you find out that there was a really cool article on a game you want in one of the generic game mags. You decide you want to buy an issue, but you only found out a few months later.
What are you more likely to do: Order a back issue or go check the newspaper for someone who is selling the mag because they are done with it?
The entire point is: Being able to resell something is not this unalienable right that some people seem to think we have. Lots of things can't really be resold.

You still can resell a magazine. Just because it's easier to order a back issue doesn't mean you can't buy one used. Plus by being able to buy it used you could still get your hands on one in the event that the magazine publisher went out of business and there was no way to order an old issue.
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Gundato: Let's say you find out that there was a really cool article on a game you want in one of the generic game mags. You decide you want to buy an issue, but you only found out a few months later.
What are you more likely to do: Order a back issue or go check the newspaper for someone who is selling the mag because they are done with it?
The entire point is: Being able to resell something is not this unalienable right that some people seem to think we have. Lots of things can't really be resold.
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ceemdee: You still can resell a magazine. Just because it's easier to order a back issue doesn't mean you can't buy one used. Plus by being able to buy it used you could still get your hands on one in the event that the magazine publisher went out of business and there was no way to order an old issue.

Okey dokeys. Rather than continue to try to explain using comparisons and the like, let's just drop the cheap-shot:
Can you resell the stuff you buy at this very website? :p
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Gundato: Okey dokeys. Rather than continue to try to explain using comparisons and the like, let's just drop the cheap-shot:
Can you resell the stuff you buy at this very website? :p

Of course not. However all of the games released on this website can also be resold if you own the original physical disc. That is the concern some people have. That even if they can resell the physical disc too much material released via DLC could make worthless.
So far most DLC has just been extra stuff, but as Siannah said if stuff like full expansion packs are released via DLC then you might be required to purchase them if you wish to enjoy/understand a sequel to a game.
No one is saying that their rights are being stripped away, but it is still a legitimate concern given the greedy track record of many companies.
Even so, I purchase most of my game through digital distribution because I feel it is worth the risk (for now at least).
This game (specifically the RPG elements) has been dumbed down for casuals to the point where I feel bad about installing the thing.