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Kerchatin: Rod Serling would shake his head in shame.

And anyway, who are you to determine the classification of a game?

[SNIP]
Regarding your main point though, I actually do somewhat agree. GOG probably should have more transparency for its reviewing process and it would be nice to know why some games were not accepted, when asked.

EDIT: Thank you Starmaker. +1
It's only an opinion mate, however it's not really a decisions I want to get into. I would rather focus on getting games like Wrack and Retrovirus on GOG. That is ultimately what I'm trying to accomplish.
Then I'll try and justify my conservative. opinion on what constitutes a game.
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Magmarock: Look this conversation is not going into the right direction.
You know when I read the OP I was with you until you started promoting the games of your choice at the cost of other titles you deem not worthy to be on GOG. If you don't think it's right that GOG makes seemingly arbitrary assumptions about what their customers want, you shouldn't do so yourself either. Apparantly there are enough people who enjoy the titles you dislike, and insulting the taste of these people has brought nothing constructive to the table, it's only drawn attention away from your topic about Wrack and Retrovirus. You could have just said: "These games belong on GOG because they have oldschool gameplay", and left your bias against Hatoful Boyfriend and Gone Home out of the discussion.

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Magmarock: There is a market for games like Wrack and I am a part of that market. There are sales to be made from this game, so there's no reason to reject it.
There is, if the expected sales are not enough to make up for the costs. We don't really know anything about GOG's business calculation, how much costs they have, how many copies they'd need to sell to make it worth it, at what price. Just because a game is good doesn't automatically mean enough people will buy it for enough money.

I don't like hearing of rejected games either and I would welcome Wrack and Retrovirus on GOG, but I already have Retrovirus on Steam and even though I'd prefer a DRM-free version, I don't think I'd buy it again, at least not for the full price, and Wrack I'd buy only in a sale if gets good reviews. The same goes for Gone Home and Hatoful Boyfriend though, I already got DRM-free Gone Home from Humble and Hatoful Boyfriend I'd only buy very cheaply if at all. I suspect the indie game market is pretty tough for GOG, because they're so late to the party, because it's so saturated and there is so much competition, and they release so few games a week, comparatively, that they have to be very picky, not just in terms of quality (many high quality indies are not on GOG) but also in terms of expected profit. It's easy for us to say a game would sell, but even though it's hard to predict for GOG, too, we have even less data to back up this claim than I assume GOG has for rejecting it. And if it turns out we were wrong about it, it's not our loss but GOG's money that was gambled away.
Post edited November 18, 2014 by Leroux
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Leroux: You know when I read the OP I was with you until you started promoting the games of your choice at the cost of other titles you deem not worthy to be on GOG. If you don't think it's right that GOG makes seemingly arbitrary assumptions about what their customers want, you shouldn't do so yourself either. Apparantly there are enough people who enjoy the titles you dislike, and insulting the taste of these people has brought nothing constructive to the table, it's only drawn attention away from your topic about Wrack and Retrovirus. You could have just said: "These games belong on GOG because they have oldschool gameplay", and left your bias against Hatoful Boyfriend and Gone Home out of the discussion.
Thank you for putting what I wanted to say so politely.
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Leroux: You know when I read the OP I was with you until you started promoting the games of your choice at the cost of other titles you deem not worthy to be on GOG. If you don't think it's right that GOG makes seemingly arbitrary assumptions about what their customers want, you shouldn't do so yourself either. Apparantly there are enough people who enjoy the titles you dislike, and insulting the taste of these people has brought nothing constructive to the table, it's only drawn attention away from your topic about Wrack and Retrovirus. You could have just said: "These games belong on GOG because they have oldschool gameplay", and left your bias against Hatoful Boyfriend and Gone Home out of the discussion.
Perhaps, I don't think I can discuss this without my biases coming out. I mean yes of course I'm going to promote the games I personally like and believe should be here. My view isn't so much that Gone Home shouldn't be here it's more if GOG can accept Gone Home and a visual novel then surely they can accept these others as well. Yes I am biased yes I have a high opinion of Wrack and Retrovirus and a low opinion of Hatoful Boyfreind. Don't think there's anyway I'm going to be able to hide that.

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Leroux: There is, if the expected sales are not enough to make up for the costs. We don't really know anything about GOG's business calculation, how much costs they have, how many copies they'd need to sell to make it worth it, at what price. Just because a game is good doesn't automatically mean enough people will buy it for enough money.

I don't like hearing of rejected games either and I would welcome Wrack and Retrovirus on GOG, but I already have Retrovirus on Steam and even though I'd prefer a DRM-free version, I don't think I'd buy it again, at least not for the full price, and Wrack I'd buy only in a sale if gets good reviews. The same goes for Gone Home and Hatoful Boyfriend though, I already got DRM-free Gone Home from Humble and Hatoful Boyfriend I'd only buy very cheaply if at all. I suspect the indie game market is pretty tough for GOG, because they're so late to the party, because it's so saturated and there is so much competition, and they release so few games a week, comparatively, that they have to be very picky, not just in terms of quality (many high quality indies are not on GOG) but also in terms of expected profit. It's easy for us to say a game would sell, but even though it's hard to predict for GOG, too, we have even less data to back up this claim than I assume GOG has for rejecting it. And if it turns out we were wrong about it, it's not our loss but GOG's money that was gambled away.
This is why I want transparency and clarity, I want to know why these games were rejected and if these rejections can be appealed.

As for the indie scene being late, well I can tell you that the dev himself was disappointed. He wasn't expecting Steam level sales but he believes there would have still been a significant increase.

As for DRM well, I recently moved into my own house and for the first mouth I had no TV, phone or internet. (I still have no TV) and Steam DRM served as a reminder that I don't own any of the games I bought from them. It didn't help that one of my main hard drives died either. In short only my collection of DRM free games got me though that.
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Magmarock: Why is a visual novel about fucking birds so damn popular.
It was a good question. I wasn't sure it was really popular. My initial reaction of "I would prefer Hatoful Boyfriend to Wrack" was based on my preference for a game with some story and my dislike for what I felt was a contentless generic shooter. I didn't think Hatoful Boyfriend would be something I enjoy.

But this post made me go to Steam and read people's reviews, and I have to say that now there's a chance I will buy Hatoful Boyfriend. The way I read it, the game has a pretty good story, manages its absurd premise with humour but without being a farce. Overall it sounds rather cool. So thanks for posting this question. I wouldn't have considered getting Hatoful Boyfriend otherwise.

Edit: After reading this I felt the need to apologise for going to Steam for the reviews. For some reason it's easier to read and my first port of call. Reading the GOG reviews, they're pretty similar.
Post edited November 18, 2014 by ET3D
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Magmarock: Why is a visual novel about fucking birds so damn popular.
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ET3D: It was a good question. I wasn't sure it was really popular. My initial reaction of "I would prefer Hatoful Boyfriend to Wrack" was based on my preference for a game with some story and my dislike for what I felt was a contentless generic shooter. I didn't think Hatoful Boyfriend would be something I enjoy.

But this post made me go to Steam and read people's reviews, and I have to say that now there's a chance I will buy Hatoful Boyfriend. The way I read it, the game has a pretty good story, manages its absurd premise with humour but without being a farce. Overall it sounds rather cool. So thanks for posting this question. I wouldn't have considered getting Hatoful Boyfriend otherwise.

Edit: After reading this I felt the need to apologise for going to Steam for the reviews. For some reason it's easier to read and my first port of call. Reading the GOG reviews, they're pretty similar.
It's okay to like what you like, I just feel that GOG is lacking a certain something.
Post edited November 18, 2014 by Magmarock
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Magmarock: Look I know I vented about Hatoful Boyfriend but could we please stick to the subject of rejected games.
Okay, sorry. But really, you did make me want to play it, and while that's not what you set out to do, I do thank you for it.

Really, there's not much to say about rejected games. Someone thought they shouldn't be here, and it's their opinion. Your opinion may be different, but there's not much you can do with this system. There are alternative systems, like Steam Greenlight, or just letting every game in, but if you think that a curated system is good in principle, then there's going to be choices made, and some people will not agree with them.
Out of all the mentioned, Retrovirus. Here's the wishlist, in case it hasn't been posted yet: Retrovirus

I know what you mean, I have similar feelings regarding GOG's game rejection criteria, they could definitely improve on this matter. I like the idea of involving the consumers (to a degree) on the decision process. Sure, we already have the community wishlist, but in my opinion that only really works for AAA/older games. It's not a good system for Indie games, I think.

I have no idea how something like this could be implemented though. Maybe putting up polls for those games they are unsure about? I don't know. Anyway, like I always say, it's GOG's business, so it's their decision.
Post edited November 18, 2014 by Tannath
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Tannath: Out of all the mentioned, Retrovirus. Here's the wishlist, in case it hasn't been posted yet: Retrovirus

I know what you mean, I have similar feelings regarding this topic, GOG could definitely improve on this matter. I like the idea of involving the consumers (to a degree) on the decision process. Sure, we already have the community wishlist, but in my opinion that only really work for AAA/older games. It's not a good system for Indie games, I think.

I have no idea how something like this could be implemented though. Maybe putting up polls for those games they are unsure about? I don't know. Anyway, like I always say, it's GOG's business, so it's their decision.
Yes what's the point of having a wishlist if you're not even going to use it. I know it's their business but as a humble suggestion I think that busyness would only get better from implanting certain feedback system. A poll would be a great idea for games that GOG are unsure about or decisive about.
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Magmarock: Look I know I vented about Hatoful Boyfriend but could we please stick to the subject of rejected games.
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ET3D: Okay, sorry. But really, you did make me want to play it, and while that's not what you set out to do, I do thank you for it.

Really, there's not much to say about rejected games. Someone thought they shouldn't be here, and it's their opinion. Your opinion may be different, but there's not much you can do with this system. There are alternative systems, like Steam Greenlight, or just letting every game in, but if you think that a curated system is good in principle, then there's going to be choices made, and some people will not agree with them.
I edited that post since I wasn't happy with my first reply.
Post edited November 18, 2014 by Magmarock
GOG does it again... They reject Wrack, Hovertank 3D, Braid, Thomas was Alone, etc, but release crappy games(for me, I respect the opinion of people who like/buy them) like Gone Home, Slender: The Arrival and Surgeon Simulator 2013.
Many can argue that Hovertank is not that good, but, at least, it's part of the video games history, while the others(GH, Slender and SS 2013, for example) are just games with 15 minutes of fame/games that people play because "all the people I know are playing them too and IGN gave them 11/10".

I understand if Gone Home gives more income than Braid or Thomas was Alone in the short term, but down the line the younger people will probably buy more indie "classics" like Braid, etc than short term indie hits like Surgeon Simulator, Slender, etc.(If you are a PS2 collector, for example, you probably buy games like Shadow of the Colossus, MGS, ICO, Okami, Beyond Good and Evil,etc and not PES 4, Singstar, Buzz or other short term hit of that era).
But, if games like Braid doesn't, supposedly[especulation], give decent revenue(at least in the shost term) to GOG because they are late to the party, the same wouldn't apply to Gone Home and Terraria too?(I know they are more recent, but the majority of the people who wanted to play them(not counting future generations) already have done so).

I'm not saying that GOG should open the floodgates like Steam or remove/have not released Gone Home, Terraria, etc, but why don't they give the same oportunities to,at least, a few more games in the same conditions(years in the market,+- same vote count in the community wishlist, etc)?
If they have doubts and after looking at the community wishlist(only reflects a small percentage of users preferences) they remain unsure, why don't they just create a voting pool in the homepage to see if enough/more people are interested or make a "pre-order" with a minimum of sales target, and once it is reached they can start making the installers, etc.

I know it gives much work(talk to and reaching an unofficial/official temporary agreement with the devs(even if the community doesn't give "green light", the devs change their minds, etc and the game isn't released), but if they want to grow they have to try/work harder.
Because nothing is perfect, many games would continue to be overlook, but, at least, more(hopefully good) games would have the opportunity to be released.

All said, this is just my personal opinion with a bit of speculation/some info from posts I've read in the past and ,obviously, GOG shouldn't do everything the community says, but they can learn to "co-operate" with us, so everyone can be happy in the end.
Post edited November 18, 2014 by hugo360pt
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hugo360pt: GOG does it again... They reject Wrack, Hovertank 3D, Braid, Thomas was Alone, etc, but release crappy games(for me, I respect the opinion of people who like/buy them) like Gone Home, Slender: The Arrival and Surgeon Simulator 2013.
Many can argue that Hovertank is not that good, but, at least, it's part of the video games history, while the others(GH, Slender and SS 2013, for example) are just games with 15 minutes of fame/games that people play because "all the people I know are playing them too and IGN gave them 11/10".

I understand if Gone Home gives more income than Braid or Thomas was Alone in the short term, but down the line the younger people will probably buy more indie "classics" like Braid, etc than short term indie hits like Surgeon Simulator, Slender, etc.(If you are a PS2 collector, for example, you probably buy games like Shadow of the Colossus, MGS, ICO, Okami, Beyond Good and Evil,etc and not PES 4, Singstar, Buzz or other short term hit of that era).
But, if games like Braid doesn't, supposedly[especulation], give decent revenue(at least in the shost term) to GOG because they are late to the party, the same wouldn't apply to Gone Home and Terraria too?(I know they are more recent, but the majority of the people who wanted to play them(not counting future generations) already have done so).

I'm not saying that GOG should open the floodgates like Steam or remove/have not released Gone Home, Terraria, etc, but why don't they give the same oportunities to,at least, a few more games in the same conditions(years in the market,+- same vote count in the community wishlist, etc)?
If they have doubts and after looking at the community wishlist(only reflects a small percentage of users preferences) they remain unsure, why don't they just create a voting pool in the homepage to see if enough/more people are interested or make a "pre-order" with a minimum of sales target, and once it is reached they can start making the installers, etc.

I know it gives much work(talk to and reaching an unofficial/official temporary agreement with the devs(even if the community doesn't give "green light", the devs change their minds, etc and the game isn't released), but if they want to grow they have to try/work harder.
Because nothing is perfect, many games would continue to be overlook, but, at least, more(hopefully good) games would have the opportunity to be released.

All said, this is just my personal opinion with a bit of speculation/some info from posts I've read in the past and ,obviously, GOG shouldn't do everything the community says, but they can learn to "co-operate" with us, so everyone can be happy in the end.
Oh my god, thank you so much for this post. GOG rejected Braid!? WTF! I'm not even into Braid but there's no way that game would not bring in lots of dosh. Do you hate money GOG. It's like they have the means to actually compete with Steam but are choosing not to.
Keep in mind that the reasons for rejection are almost always the words of the publisher/developer, there is nothing easier for them to say that GOG rejected them because the game wasn't good enough to make them look good.
But we don't know what sort of negotiations there have been, maybe they made ludricous demands and from my experience GOG had the best interest for their customers while I can't say the same from the publisher/developer's.
This thread should have been rejected by Gog.
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Austrobogulator: This thread should have been rejected by Gog.
Ditto.
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Austrobogulator: This thread should have been rejected by Gog.
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misteryo: Ditto.
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