I just love how you keep trying so hard to twist my arguments....
Now you are linking analysis from two different days and tying it together into some master plan.

Those who twist the truth are clearly fascists as liberals should not be lying or deceiving anyone.

First you quote my suggestion from ZFR's nomination where I presented the idea that if you think ZFR is a good candidate but were worried about Cristi/Adalia, it's not that crazy to jump Cristi/Adalia by taking an extra step. I wasn't particularly happy with Cristi either, hence my suggestion. Cristi just hadn't posted enough for me to be comfortable with her. But I didn't think that was a good enough reason not to vote for someone I think was acting quite liberal.

Then you quote me from much later after Brasas raised a bunch of suspicion and I gave my preferences. Where I even say that Adalia was second by default only because I became suspicious of Brasas. Yes, such a stellar recommendation of Cristi/Adalia.

Somehow you keep twisting this into support of Cristi/Adalia...which it never was. Still isn't now except by default, already too many scum on my scum list. It should be pretty obvious to anyone, that you are lying and twisting facts. And liberals do not do that intentionally...

You and Zfr posted full furking walls of text to present scenarios where I could be Hitler. Am I not allowed to post a possible scenario where you are Hitler? You are starting to become annoying to liberals. If you are really a liberal, I think you are a bad player. And you have twisted my words more than once, I am sure others have noticed.

I think kusu said it right. Fascists' only hope is lobbying and swaying opinions or whatever he called it. And as everyone sees right now, the axis, or should I say allies to avoid more stupid accusations, me-Lift is unshakeable, so nothing changes from my side.

Where are other game plans? I said earlier that we must find a third player to be a chancellor after Lift or even before him if the score goes 3-2 and we agree to keep Lift for safety net in case the score goes 3-3. Where are the suggestions on how to find the most trusted ones? I asked people whether they trust Zfr and RW enough to nominate them and no one has said yes until now.

This isn't about your Hitler suggestion...this is about how you took Lift's comment and called it "a good argument" without even thinking about it. Or how you seemingly want to ignore "valid arguments" for whatever reason.

As to you or Lift being Hitler, why are you choosing to completely ignore it? You have never given a good explanation why fascists, knowing the outcome would be 3-0 because they know everyone's alignment, were giving that government a free pass? When Lift made a mistake and used Brasas' name instead of yours, there was the perfect opportunity to derail it, and no one even tried. Instead we get a mostly (because Brasas always votes No) unanimous vote in favor.

I think this is quite relevant to our situation. You are talking about what we should commit to 3 governments from now. If you are deep-thinking to that extent, it seems you "should" be capable of analyzing the above, but you completely ignore it. Why? If you are liberal, isn't it relevant to you that Lift very well may be Hitler? You are planning to have him in the government after this one, right? And I'm not saying you shouldn't, but I am saying that the results of the next two governments will likely have great influence on any decision what to do in the 3rd, that discussing it now is fruitless.

Another question: Why are you so worried about "walls of text" from me or ZFR but not Scene who you keep trying to give a free pass? Combine this with your undying trust in Lift not being Hitler for some inexplicable reason, makes me really think it's you and not him.

I am not giving Scene a free pass, he is as tiresome as you. When the others mentioned going in circles, they meant you and Scene.

I saw lift's slip and didn't consider it important. There are many slips, typos etc. they don't show something. Scene started talking in third person about himself, does this show anything?

You want a good argument? Ok, I'll give you one. It's good for Scene but anyway. Zfr said Scene could be a vanilla fascist hoping to pass FF and accuse the chancellor since he had gained a bit of trust. This is not a possible scenario in my opinion because the score was 1-0 and we wouldn't believe that a fascist given a choice would pass F at that point, he would pass L, that would be the usual play for a fascist or Hitler, right? So we would think Scene was lying. Is this logical? Now you find a good counter argument because if Scene isn't Hitler and if he isn't a vanilla fascist, you know the rest.

If I can't trust Lift
I don't trust nobody baby
If I can't trust Lift, oh oh oh oh

How do you think that is a "good argument"?
Then how else do fascists pass fascist policies? They always wait for bad luck?

You really aren't even trying to think through the possibilities.

--------------

It's pretty simple really...put yourself in the shoes of a vanilla fascist...

Government #1: You were chosen as Chancellor by a liberal (no point discussing if you are Hitler since I'd be talking to a wall). And you are passed 1L1F. What do you do?

You have 2 choices:
1) Pass a fascist policy which creates a dispute as the liberal accuses you of lying and visa versa, but that liberal also gets to use the investigative power on someone else (might even stumble on Hitler).
2) You pass a liberal policy and with your turn coming up shortly you should be able to get the chance to then pass a fascist policy. (We'll discuss this more in detail next).

It's not that surprising a fascist might choose option #2.

Government #2: You are now president. You are probably a bit worried about going down 2-0. Who do you select as your chancellor?

1) You can choose a fascist with the intention of passing a fascist policy.
2) You can choose a fascist with the intention of passing a liberal policy.
3) You can choose a liberal with the intention of passing a fascist policy.
4) You can choose a liberal with the intention of passing a liberal policy.
5) You can choose Hitler with the intention of passing a liberal policy.

You probably won't choose #2 because while you create more cover, you are now down 2-0 and you definitely won't do #4 confirming another liberal. Now, between options #1 and #3, if you are passing a fascist policy, and you are in control of it (you think), wouldn't you rather throw a liberal under the bus rather than one of your partners? That should be a no-brainer. #5 is also a very valid option as well.

So under the circumstances, both #3 and #5 make sense. Note how choosing a fellow fascist really DOESN'T make sense.

Of course, then there is random chance...you draw 3L or 2L1F...now what do you do?
If you pass 1F1L, you know a liberal policy will be passed and you both get credit for it.
Or you pass 2L, claim you are "so liberal" by guaranteeing a liberal policy gets passed and deny confirmation of the liberal you were trying to set up. Isn't that the better option?

But hey, are you still convinced you are making such a "good argument"? And the fact you aren't concerned at all about Lift speaks volumes...

As a fascist, I might choose 1) and say I drew FFF if I absolutely wanted a fascist policy to pass there. But at 1-0 I would consider choosing Hitler for him to pass L and gain trust. Most fascist wins come from 3+Hitler.

Anyway if you want to be consistent, you must admit that if brasas passes me L he is liberal, even more now that the score is 3-1 because "Then how else do fascists pass fascist policies? They always wait for bad luck?" If a fascist according to you definitely wants to pass a fascist policy at 1-0, then he wants the same at 3-1, if you don't agree with this you are not consistent. The truth is that fascists have a lot of chances for fascist policies to pass undetected or through bad luck. And in this game they probably decided to go for the 3+Hitler instead of the 6 since they were down.

And about Lift, I repeat that I don't have anyone better to trust at this point so let's leave it for now. If we go 3-2 we can talk about it again. I also tend to trust kusu and consider the possibility of nominating him as chancellor if the rest agree.

If Brasas passes you an L it doesn't prove anything. I've already explained it. He can pass you an L to throw everyone off and then push for the supposedly "now confirmed' team of Scene, Brasas and Dedo to become chancellors. Yeah, they would be taking a chance with it going to 4-1.

If Lift is Hitler, Lift saves them if necessary.
And there is still the 54.5% chance the draw is 3F, which brings it to 4-2 with their team smelling like roses and you looking a bit discredited.

Compare that to 3-2 where Dedo is virtually confirmed as fascist, and Brasas and Scene will not be trusted again. Yeah, they gain 1 fascist policy, but now they only have their secret Hitler to save them. And depending on who that is, it might not be enough...

Both are very viable options for the fascists. The fact you want to absolutely confirm Brasas without giving it a whit of thought is what's disturbing.

Huh? Hitler does have to appear liberal, but why wouldn't a vanilla fascist pass F policy at 1-0??


Anyway, here is an even stronger argument: it was assumed by everyone that the next govt after scene and RW would be Lift and you. If you are Hitler and if scene was fascist then he knew he had to pass F at 1-0. Because otherwise you'd be in a difficult sitution where you as Hitler would either have to pass L to make it 3-0 putting fascists behind or passing F and tarnishing your image.

Ok, I'll accept that your scenarios are logical but I don't see my suggested line of play as wrong, so I won't say anything else on this. If the others want to comment, they are free.

And now a riddle for everyone. If you and I are liberals and brasas is fascist and draws L, do you want him to pass me that L? You don't have to answer loudly but think AFTER you answer.

*scratches head* o_0

This game is becoming surreal...

Maybe he's royalty. Wait... that's "we"...

Good post.

Well I assume you mean if he passes you two Fs we can be fairly sure he's F and dedo probably is too. And that may be worth more than another L (though I don't think so).


But as I'm fairly sure my government has failed and we're either voting Brasas in or having a random policy I have another similar question.

If you are convinced the last possible government has a fascist president is it better to vote it in anyway or allow a random policy draw?
Particularly at this crucial juncture, without rereading the rules we only reshuffle when there is less than three cards left, so if we draw a random policy (assuming everyone has told the truth) we have a 2 in 5 chance of getting an L anyway, and if it's an F then the next government should be guaranteed at least one L from the remaining cards...

If Brasas and greek are both L it's not worth the risk, but if we suspect Brasas might withhold an L it may be worth it... of course it also depends on those last two Ls actually being in the deck still...

What does everyone think?

That is His Royal Sceneness to you Brasas

@RWarehall don't compare my with yours and ZFRs thread spamming with my posting. I doubt I have 1/3 of your wordcount on this thread and I'm genuinely not that busy and enjoy waxing lyrical here, so that says something.

This is a fascist tactic. Dominate the conversation with rhetoric and even if it isn't true you shout louder and more often than the rest.

You're asking whether we'd prefer to draw a random card that would likely be a fascist card rather than test Brasas and know the truth about Brasas or Dedo?

The liberals amongst us would prefer that knowledge and maybe a greater chance of drawing a Liberal card where as Fascists such as yourself may want that knowledge supressed.

@ZFR the information you're asking for is quite detailed and I've started re-reading the whole thread. It's a big read and I'm slowly analysing it.

The votes are in! The results are as follows.

1. The Greek (greeklover) - NO
2. Boss Kusu (kusumahendra) - NO
3. Mr. Scene (supplementscene) - NO
4. Basil the Lifter (lifthrasil) - NO
5. Bishop Bling (ZFR) - NO
6. Captain Dedo (dedoporno) - NO
7. General Warehall (RWarehall) - NO
8. Adalia the Bookkeeper (adaliabooks) - YES
9. Big Brass (Brasas) - NO
10. Chief Blotunga (blotunga) - NO

The government is not approved!
The council grows frantic!

https://i.imgur.com/j8QGCvQ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Mdv5jVW.jpg

The current president is Brasas, who must pick a chancellor. The chancellor cannot be anybody who was a part of the previous government (dedoporno, supplementscene).

Scene screw you and all your random accusations of being a fascist based on thin air. All you are doing is being an ass, and I'm getting sick of it.

I am providing valuable analysis that if you were a liberal, you would be able to appreciate. You seem to repeat the same insults and repeated poorly thought out commentary based on nothing but thin air. You cannot explain any of your reasoning just filling post after post with idiotic conspiracy theories and cherry-picked and misleading statements. It seems you are hellbent on taking advantage of the newbies for the win because any regular would see how terrible your logic is.

You cannot explain how ZFR's waffling on government #2 makes him so obviously a fascist. But now somehow it requires such "intense research" now.

Simple questions...like "Why would a fascist have anything to worry about being chosen by Kusu?"
Does he think a liberal is going to lie about him? Does that make any sense at all? Maybe he's afraid of another fascist bussing him turn #2? Which doesn't make sense either. Or if Kusu is Hitler, maybe he was worried about confirming him? Nope, doesn't make sense either.

But please keep telling us how "obviously fascist" he is. Maybe if you repeat it enough, people will start believing you...

Seems the best you guys can come up with, since you can't make a logical argument about it, is to explain it as a "meltdown" because meltdowns don't have to make sense.