You are really grasping for straws, are you? It's beyond useless to try to discuss with you, you just see what you want. But I'll try nonetheless.

- Scene passing you 2L can have two motivations: either he wanted to make sure that you have to pass L (that would be liberal motivation) or he wanted to deny you the possibility to confirm yourself (that would be fascist motivation)

- My 'coronation of him as the leading liberal' ... what the hell are you talking about? Try reading something that isn't from the very start of the game. Yes, it was my impression that he is liberal at the start. If you read later, you'll see how that changed. I also had greek at a lower 'liberality' initially, that changed too. Now I have greek as very likely liberal and scene as 'strange, inattentive and possibly scum'. As you would know if you would not focus so much on the very start of the game. Impressions change. And of course when ZFR changes his mind about something that is a sign of being liberal. But when I change my mind, you either ignore that or rate it as sign of scumminess, calling it me contradicting myself. Why do you focus so much on first impressions? Can't you find anything better?

As for me passing doubt on Greek and ZFR ... Greek? Really? Didn't you also accuse me of giving him too much credit? Could you please decide whether I shade him or rate him as too liberal? It can't be both.

About how you and Scene being on one team could possibly make sense: ever heard of a strategy called 'distancing'? You two might be going at it for show. No, him passing you 2L doesn't make sense in that case, unless he drew 3L, which is very unlikely, but possible. (1L was unaccounted for after all) But I do agree that is more likely that one of you is fascist and the other is a badly playing liberal. Pick for yourself which one you are.

I still find it very interesting that I became your favourite target the moment I dared to question you. If you are liberal, that is very bad play and you are currently playing against your own faction. If you are fascist, you are still very annoying, but I can excuse that with your desperation as you see your faction losing.

But if you really are liberal, I have one request: try reading your own posts and imagine someone else had written them. Then you will see how scummy they look and that you would be the first one to condemn them, if they were targeted at you.

Finally, to repeat in the hope that it actually registers with you: I don't know why the fascists voted like they did. I can speculate, but to know for sure we would have to ask a fascist. How about you? Why did you vote the way you did?


@Greek: how about we just pass that next liberal policy and put an end to these pointless discussions.

I'm not the biggest fan of RW but even I laughed at this.

Thanks. At least one person here appreciates my humour! :-)

Seems you are the one grasping at straws...
You keep trying to pass shade...funny how you use the idea of distancing as an argument for everything that doesn't make logical sense. It's a smokescreen.

Even your scenario with Scene and I on the same scum team...your answer...distancing...
I guess Scene passed 2L just to distance himself right? What you miss is that if Scene really drew 3L and we are both fascists, why doesn't he just lie to confirm me? Claim he drew 2L1F and passed me 1L1F?

For the record, you became my favorite target as soon as you completely brushed off the idea that because no one even questioned your 3-0 government that likely means one of you two are Hitler. I would think a real liberal would give it more than a passing glance and brush it off with excuses on why Greek looks so liberal. Because everyone knows the primary tactic for Hitler is to appear as liberal as possible and try to get confirmed in a government.

All I see is you trying to muddy the waters...ZFR didn't change his mind, he sure seemed to distrust Kusu which looks like a liberal to me. But of course you'll come back with the "maybe it was distancing", your answer to everything that doesn't really make sense. As to Scene, given his outbursts, it's no surprise you'd change your mind on him. It should be clear to anyone regardless of alignment he went off the deep end. But I imagine that would be regardless of alignment.

As to why I voted the way I did, I've posted my reasoning each and every time. I let your government pass because it contained one person with a track record and someone I didn't have a negative opinion of. I voted for ZFR's government for the very same reason. I voted at first against Dedo's government because it looked like a fascist setup, and changed my vote when I looked ahead at the possibilities for my own government (which i described in detail and won't repeat it here). I voted for Brasas because I thought either result would be good. Either we get 4L or we get 3L2F knowing two of the fascists with a high degree of certainty. I voted against Blotunga's because he's untested and Dedo was a very poor choice. And I'm voting for Greek's so we can pin down who is Hitler.

But I'm pretty sure I have already made clear why I'm voting the way I did all game, the fact you are asking means you aren't really paying attention...

Actually dedo was a good choice imho. I didn't want to pick lift because if by some miracle my government would've passed, he would be term locked for greek. My reasoning was that a fascist wouldn't have confirmed Brasas as a liberal because there was a risk of 4-1 which we have now.

@Greek don't investigate Lift as he's likely Lib. Investigate Scene to full confirm a likely liberal or Kusu as if ZFR is fascist he may have been trying to eliminate a liberal presidents chance of confirmation.

NO I think I Mr Scene am the best candidate for Lift's chancellor and if Greek confirms me via investigation we can run Greek, Lift, Scene and win. Ofcourse if we can pick any President on Lift's turn he can cycle back to Greek anyway if that's right.

And stop twisting the truth, you know full well I started suspecting you when you became ZFRs best buddy in the world. We can confirm all this via investigation. No need to write pages of script, just need Greek to investigate me

One of Scene, Brasas, Dedo or Kusu. I think Lift is highly likely to Be lib and this way we can confirm a further Lib and my money

The problem is if Dedo is F that will increase your suspicion of Brasas and Scene where both could be Lib if Dedo is F. Scene is more likely to be Lib than Dedo from probability so is a safer bet to test.

If Greek or Lift aren't Lib we have a big problem anyway because let's say you claim you passed an L. Well who do we believe you or Lift? If you investigate Lift, again who do we believe?

But if both are Lib we can play Lift-Scene and if FFF is drawn Lift can pick Greek as the next President. Ofcourse then you have to take a punt on a Chancellor. Or we could then play Scene-Greek but if that fails we have a bit of a problem picking the next President

Which as you well know was because of my suspicions of you and RWarehall. But if Greek investigates me some clarity can be given.

Hehe, no. You didn't write "I mistrust RW and ZFR, so dedo is the best solution". Here is the full post for reference.

The evidence against adalia is particularly damning. he he he...

I apologise to the rest of the crowd if this is annoying bickering, I'll stop discussing with ZFR/RWarehall for a bit unless something comes up.

1. Interesting you're ignoring the chance to investigate Scene and focusing on a 10 day old post instead. Would you prefer Greek investigated ZFR or RWarehall?

2. It's also interesting you deliberately avoided posting the whole post and it's more damning evidence, here it is:

Interesting analysis of the game. Combined with RW voting for ZFR as President and alongside ZFR voted against him being Chancellor.

Plus RWarehall quotes:

1. I tend to trust ZFR, some others seemingly don't.

2. Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with an extra government before Greek's if that meant both ZFR and mine pass. I don't think the extra step would really hurt us

3. I look at ZFR and while there is a healthy dose of what could be either devil's advocate liberalism or subtle fascist passing of shade, I notice that a few times he has brought up very important points such as his explanation of why a fascist would be passing 2L to a liberal instead of 1L1F.

4. Let's be clear, I'm supportive because ZFR has said all the right things so far

5. One thing I was hoping to take out of this election is ZFR's alignment based on who might try to derail it (or whether than turned out to be nobody in which case he'd be almost definitely fascist given our lead). When I saw Kusu fight it, my first thought is that's one fascist trying to derail a liberal win.

6. It's posts like this that make me believe you are not what you claim. If you were a liberal, you'd realize how impossible it is to spot Hitler (because I've been trying to think up creative ways to do so). You'd also have a greater appreciation of how difficult it is to spot a fascist and how much guesswork is involved. There usually is no "probably" about it, just hair-pulling and doubt. That said, I now do have you in the "probably fascist" camp, but it took this slip of yours to do it.

7. My preference for the last 3 before Greek is:
Blotunga - not much to go on, but more than Adalia
Adalia - I don't trust Brasas, middle by default

Analysis

1. Backing ZFR

2. Lobbing for both his and ZFRs governments

3. The fact ZFR criticised the passing of is a good thing. I still maintain this is the best way of liberal cause. Neither RW or ZFR agree.

4. This is clearly wrong and a lie. ZFR even if Liberal definitely hasn't said 'all the right things'. I questioned in 362 about this asking if RWarehall is fascist.

5. Now this is an odd post. Why is Kusu being accused of being fascist from very little evidence? Have I missed something or is this a huge defensive deflection.

6. A further accusation that Kusu is Facist.

7. OK THIS IS HUGE, HUGE, HUGE, HUGE. RWarehall's Presidential preferences are all of the Yes voters for ZFR. No way is this a coincidence.

The Fascists/Hitler are: ZFR, RWarehall, Adalia, Blotunga

What's more Blotunga is calling Kosu fascist and doesn't want Brasas as President, oh it'll have to be 2 of those other guys.....

Blotunga is voting against Dedoporno

RW was suspicious of Dedoporno based on what was a fairly factual reply.

Adalia has attacked me very early on.

We've won Liberals we now know who the Scum are......

VOTE FOR CAPTAIN PORNO

@scene: at the point where I wrote those I was having fascist vibes from kusu (trying to derail plans etc). He hasn't said much since then so I can't comment much further. And in the same post if I remember right I said that I have a similar feeling about ZFR. As for Brasas, he was just plainly annoying at that point so I didn't wanted him in a government because that. Oppinions change. And they are like asses, everybody has one, nobody cares about the other's.

@Greek: I would prefer sticking to the original plan that you investigate me, if you draw 3F and we are forced to pass F. In that way at least you will have the confirmation that I'm liberal. Of course RW will then claim that we both are fascists and in league - but the others will then have to make up their mind whom to trust.

On the other hand, should you actually be fascist or Hitler and pass me 2F while claiming later that you passed 1F1L, then it won't matter whom you investigate, since I will know that you are not liberal and every read you would provide then would be fraught with WIFOM.

But for now, in spite of all the spite that RW spewed I'll work on the assumption that you are liberal and we'll either pass the last L or at least you get the confirmation that I am a good next candidate.

@Lift but you only have Greek you can trust to work with and he'll be barred from your government. Tactically another confirmed liberal alongside the 2 most confirmed is surely better. After this turn there will be no investigation powers.

Don't worry about RW, I think he trusts me now. And yes, I ll stick to the plan.

Btw to me it is obvious that clearing Lift clears brasas too. Brasas passed me the 4th L knowing that the next government would be me-Lift. If me and Lift are liberals there is an almost 50% chance to end the game now and brasas would know it as a fascist. Would he risk it then? I think not unless Lift was fascist. So clearing Lift, we can continue with a Lift-brasas government and then a brasas-me government.