Too explicit a contrast. Granted I find it hard to imagine how I would have played the game if I was F, but what you and RW are pushing is too reductive. I'm fairly sure if one looks back enough, the actions leading to the current situation would have been taken differently. For example, why would dedo investigate me? I was anyway in a good position to win the government instead of Adalia. Dedo could have falsely accused anyone, includng the lurkers.

Here's an idea F Dedo could have had which I just arrived at. He could have thrown me under the bus, letting Adalia and the Hitler Greek to go on a mission, for Greek Hitler to then dspute with Adalia. As you say with Greek being so strongly town read the dispute with Adalia will be risky, especially since Adalia gets the 2nd investigation.

Anyway, I think this is enough for my point, which is that you and RW are very conveniently leaving a lot of options not analyzed or considered, because in truth, you just want to muddy the waters and hope for the best.

Absolutely. All I'm saying is let's keep our eyes open and not jump to "easy" conclusions too quickly.

Interesting.

To be honest, I was actually thinking you investigate RW. His latest actions are a bit... odd, but I still have him more likely to be L due to his and scene's dispute.

The votes are in! The results are as follows.

1. The Greek (greeklover) - NO
2. Boss Kusu (kusumahendra) - NO
3. Mr. Scene (supplementscene) - NO
4. Basil the Lifter (lifthrasil) - NO
5. Bishop Bling (ZFR) - NO
6. Captain Dedo (dedoporno) - NO
7. General Warehall (RWarehall) - NO
8. Adalia the Bookkeeper (adaliabooks) - NO
9. Big Brass (Brasas) - NO
10. Chief Blotunga (blotunga) - YES

The government is not approved!
The council inches slowly towards chaos!

https://i.imgur.com/R0jhtwJ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/adQpY5Q.jpg

The current president is now greeklover, who must choose a chancellor. The chancellor cannot be Brasas.

Because there was strong pressure to investigate you. It would've been really suspicious for dedo to go "nah, instead I'll investigate the lurker blotunga".

I agree.
Other than me (which as I was less proven and possibly more suspicious didn't seem as likely) dedo could only investigate you and it would have looked really odd if he'd chosen someone else practically at random and either cleared or condemned them.

Either way I don't see much point in arguing, voting in greek's government is the only way forward at the moment, whether him and Lift are fascists or not.

I am thinking of possible scenarios now and trying to find the most conservative approach. I would really like to check both Lift and dedo in one move. As I said earlier I don't believe a fascist dedo would say brasas is liberal knowing the next government would be brasas-me, and his answers at that point were weak (believe me coz it's the truth etc) which show indifference to prove himself, and this tells me liberal. The reason for checking dedo is that if I clear him as liberal, I also clear brasas and it's game over no matter Lift's alignment. But if he's fascist, we are in trouble as brasas will be a ? again and we won't be 100% about Lift either.

The possible scenarios I see for the nomination and investigation are these (according to the rules brasas can't be investigated again)

1. me-Lift if FFF investigate Lift
2. me-Lift if FFF investigate dedo
3. me-Lift if FFL and Lift fascist investigate dedo
4. me-Lift if FFL and Lift fascist investigate scene to give us an option for next president
5. me-dedo if FFF investigate dedo
6. me-dedo if FFF investigate Lift
7. me-dedo if FFL and dedo fascist investigate Lift

Are there other scenarios you want to suggest? Of course we'll talk again about the investigation after a policy passes. Do most of you want to go with Lift as chancellor now?

As I recall it, it wasn't pressure, it was suggestions and discussion about investigating me. And it was partially triggered by dedo himself - which goes back to the point that if he was F, he might have played it differently... or if I was his buddy, I would have defended him investigating someone else... or ... or .... which goes back to the point that counterfactual analysis is ridiculously hard to do properly even without the WIFOM, and that I don't think you or RW are being "good enough" (thorough is a better word actually) at doing it in an objective way. ;)

How about kusu? ;)

Especially with almost 50% chance of outright winning the game for L team I'd park the investigation discussion for now. Hint: ^ I do like the way you have been thinking and strategizing.

I do think it's Greek/Lift yes. If there will be a conflict between you we need to know now while we would be at 2 F passed - that would cause a large reevaluation of the game state for me certainly.

@Greek: yes, I think if you draw FFF it makes most sense to investigate me. If you pass me FL, you won't get to investigate anyone and the game will be over.

Other thought: it's interesting. Apparently scene turned up long enough to vote. But he didn't bother to show up here in the thread. That's not nice.

@Scene: please come back to the game. Just disappearing hurts the game as a whole (like lurking does in general).

Yeah Scene come back and don't get offended by RW saying "screw you", he's always like that :p

@greek: if you get a L, pass it/them to Lift. And if he passes the F, it's clear he is a fascist. Then you can investigate dedo imho.

dedo's a fine choice too. If we're voting then RW is my first pick to investigate, dedo second.

Because you don't have night chat to coordinate?

Just to be clear, I don't think it's a byzantine thought-in-advance plot that brought you to 4-1. Dedo could have simply wanted his buddy selected and did what he thought was best at that moment. Regardless of how it came to be, you did find yourself in a spot where you had to make a decision to pass L or F (maybe you were even mad at dedo for putting you in this spot instead of playing it differently), and having thought of Scenario A and B that I posted above, you chose A.

Anyway, let's just put this discussion on wait and continue only if it ever becomes necessary.

We don't have to wait anymore as the majority agrees.

I nominate Lifthrasil for chancellor

Right sorry guys I've been typing this for a few days and having distractions with life so haven't had a good post to submit and I still don't and I've scrapped a few replies to RWarehall because they were getting tedious for everyone. But here's some of my thoughts and there maybe repitition as it's a few posts in one:

First off we need to think how many governments we might need to get this passed. Always investigate the next potential president from here on in is the best strategy. EDIT Have we only got one investigation left? IMO we need the game won before we walk down the ZFR/RWarehall/Dedoporno Lane.

The obvious issue is 'what if Greek is F or Hitler', that would be where we'd basically lose the game. I'm reasonably confident he is Liberal or Hitler at this stage though.

@Greeklover FL is quite disapointing draw, I was hoping for LL. I tend to think Brasas is probably Liberal because this was too big a play to let it go 4-1 unless ofcourse they know one of Lift/Greek is fascist Hitler.

Dedo is a big unknown because LL would clear him but LF doesn't.

If Brasas is Lib, that does make it more likely Dedo is L, unless this was a double bluff by an F to try and get us to suspect Brasas and avoid his presidency? Obviously if it was that backfired. But Dedo we have little/no positive info on.

I believe this also confirms that Scene did not discard an L card Also @Greeklover you say I'm not confirmed but it has now been confirmed that I have never discarded a Liberal card at any turn given the L card came up on /

@RWarewall said I'm suspicious for picking Dedoporno. But I didn't pick Dedo, I had a choice between Dedo, ZFR and RWarehall. Who's the better pick with the behaviour of all 3 if you are a Liberal? Now obviously RWarehall will counter that with me engineering a dispute against RWarehall and ZFR because I knew they were Liberal and Dedo was fascist. But this stage who do we think is more likely to be Liberal? Or box 3 perhaps none of us.

@Adalia suggesting to vote against Brasas Presidency and turn a card over is suspicious behaviour.

@RWarehall posts do dominate these pages with length and analysis. He does have much logic in his analysis but I think the logic is skewed towards picking off Liberals.

@RWarehall says RWarehall, ZFR and Adalia are the most experienced players but as the most experienced players why would they trust each others analysis?

For me at this stage Unacceptable Governments:

RWarehall, ZFR, Dedoporno (sorry if your lib Dedo), Adalia and Blotunga

It could well be there is more than 1 Liberal on that list and it could well be there is Hitler amongst the rest. But we kind of need the game won before the ZFR/RWarehall/Dedoporno Presidency hits.

Can someone confirm there are 2L Cards and 10F Cards left in the reshuffled pack and the odds please

@Zeo do we only get to kill people after the 2nd fascist policy and not get investigations? I mean I know its in the rules yadaya

@Zeo you said there was a seperate thread commentating on this thread, are players not allowed to view it? Or is that against the rules

One L didn't appear in the previous round, this is why it's not confirmed that you didn't discard it.