Oh, So that "actually" what got your attention. No wonder I was confused why you think I was convinced. Perhaps putting "actually" there is too strong. But I do put question mark at the end right to show disbelief.

That was just a quick post to say "this is an interesting development. I need to think it through

According to the second post, we are waiting for scene to vote

Do so, if it's something other than it clearing dedo for everyone other than me. Because that part I groked.

OK, here's the explanation:
Scum currently has two main goals. The most important is: pass a fascist policy. They can't afford passing a 4-th liberal policy just for show. But a secondary goal is to muddle the waters and to make people less sure that dedo is a fascist (if he is).

So what a scum president in the next round might be tempted to do is to achieve both goals in one swoop while still passing a fascist policy and shifting the blame to greek. For that he could report that he drew 2L and 1F (no matter what he actually drew) - which would confirm that dedo has drawn 3F. Then he would claim to have passed 1L and 1F to Greek and that it was Greek who decided to enact the 1F. When actually the president gave Greek 2F, which he of course would say. But it would be word against word.

So if we get this scenario where you claim to have drawn 2L and 1F and yet you didn't pass those 2L to Greek, then I will know that you are a fascist trying to help dedo out of the hole he dug for himself.

Well... tbh my decision was/would be more along the lines of testing greek again or not giving him a choice but to pass L. And I already told you higher up I'd play it safe if it comes to that. That it helps everyone be sure that Dedo really drew 3F is a bonus as far I'm concerned.

Anyway need to see the gov votes until we get there really break the way we expect. I'm not pushing for open voting, but Scene's apparent turnabout is giving me some chills.

Oh, I like it. This "sudden" distancing makes me think that the three of you indeed had no backup plan and were just hoping for an FFF draw after reshuffle. Better lay the groundwork now...

The only other option would be adalia. Who is mostly absent and is replacement for cristigale, who was even more absent.

Also I already explained why testing Brasas is a good move even if he's fascist. Especially since you say yourself that the situation is hard to read. Letting Brasas be president and forcing him to show his colors, will make the situation easier to read. If he's fascist, he'll have to play a fascist policy, which will seriously damage his and dedo's credibility - which is good, if they are both fascists. If both are liberal, we have a high probability of getting the 4-th liberal policy. Both outcomes are good. So if you are sure that either both are scum or both are liberal, vote Brasas. No matter the outcome, that government will damage the fascists. Unless, of course, you want to avoid that damage to the fascists for some reason?

Sure, there is a 10% chance (even lower, if you include the previous draw), that a L-Brasas will draw 3F, then excluding Brasas and dedo from future governments would backfire. But that's a chance I'm willing to take since the benefits are much more likeky and would move us a huge step towards winning this.

Is this essentially a game of luck? Liberals are essentially to guessing who is fascist.

From my perspective (assume I'm a Liberal), there's a 34% chance that 3 fascist cards were pulled. Therefore there is a 64% chance that Dedo is Scum. If Dedo is scum he wants to either confirm a fascist or discredit a liberal. So if he is scum you are also scum. He wouldn't say you were liberal if you were liberal because it serves no end game for his cause. It doesn't hurt him either way, he's already passed a fascist base so is likely eliminated from the chancellorship.

From your perspective if you are Liberal, you therefore must assume Dedo is Liberal and align your trust towards him. If your scum you know whos who anyway. But then it's strange your asking, as you surely know this.

From my perspective that doesn't mean I think ZDF is clean, he could be Hitler, or he could be fascist and you 2 could be liberals. He could be Liberal and it could be I've read him wrong but I don't really believe that as he's back to being best buddies with RWarehall. There friendship here is something they both believe in without in game evidence.

As for the board I could make out a few small Avi pictures, which I found hard to see so I have to go off memory of names.

Ultimately it's a choice between RWarehall, Brasas and Adalia. It's between Brasas and Adalia but RWarehall is a bust for me.

No I don't think it is. They will have one fascist and Hitler. And I'm guessing Hitler is established and they are playing for 3F policies and Hitler as Chancellor.

I'm still not totally sure on this, if Hitler passes the 3rd fascist policy is it game over? Or does he need to be elected after the 3rd policy is passing. From my understanding

If this is the case Hitler maybe one of Scene, Greek or Lift.

And this is my problem with you and RWarehall, claiming you know for certain both Dedo and Scene were both fascist. I asked RWarehall how he could be sure Dedo was fascist. He ignored the question. Despite typing pages of he ignored the question of why Dedo was fascist.

Both ZFR and RWarehall are too smart to consider suspicion of themselves indicate sure fire fascist but you both post as if you do. More dishonesty.

That and the fact you constantly sing from the same hymn sheet, constantly agreeing with each other and defending each other. These aren't unknowing liberal tactics.

This was already asked and answered. In fact you asked it and zeogold answered directly to you. Also it's in the rules. So why do you ask it again?
If Hitler passes the 3rd fascist policy, nothing happens (well, he gets to choose the next president, but it's not game over). The fascists win, if Hitler is elected as Chancellor after 3 fascist policies or more are on the board. And it has to be chancellor, not president.

I'm beginning to think the other backup plan is their secret Hitler...
There is absolutely no way we can let Greek ever be Chancellor after 3F.

First, even after we had a few discussions about how Scene was not nearly as confirmed as Greek or Lift, since it's not a bad play at all for a fascist to pass a liberal policy on the first policy and the 2L draw forced his choice on the second policy, Greek defends him calling him "very likely liberal".

Now, after we have already discussed the idea that Brasas could possibly select a liberal policy and risk 4-1 just to keep the waters muddy, Greek is suggesting Brasas would be "clear" and be a perfect choice for a chancellor after Lift. Not to mention Brasas telling us how he would be a perfect choice after 3F since supposed he cannot be Hitler for some reason.

If you are not Hitler, Greek, you need to think carefully in this game. What makes you think Brasas could even possibly be "clear" at this point no matter what the result?

It's not beyond the realm of possibilities that they might take the risk of going 4-1 to really confuse us. Especially if either Greek or Lift is their secret Hitler. Because the odds after the reshuffle are not as chancy especially if their secret Hitler is President at the time.

We get one of two results out of this...
Game goes to 3-2 proving to a 96.4% certainty that Dedo is a fascist. Brasas proven to at least a 64.3% chance to be a fascist but very likely more given his actions and associations. And Scene looking rather guilty too.

Game goes to 4-1 which leaves the game very muddy. Lots of possibilities here. But still including all of them being fascists thinking they might be able to leverage the cred making up for the lost fascist policy. Makes even more sense if Greek is their Hitler as they could count on him having "bad luck" unless he draws 2L.

Cute. Though of course that's not what I said.

I said I knew the government would pass a fascist policy. With all the song and dance before it, it was clear something was wrong. And the fascists had to push for it; it was their last chance. If you, dedo and Brasas are all clean, then who are the fascists? The queit kusu, adalia and blotunga who are just resigned and won't even attempt anything?

Heh.
I'd ask you for one single instance where I "defended" RW.

But you're right in one thing; I do find excessive "friendliness" towards me at least subconsciously suspicious. It's the one thing in RW's behaviour that keeps nagging me.

It very funny you claiming others are dodging questions...

How many times have you been asked why ZFR is so scummy and you dodge it with your unsupported claim of "it's so obvious"?

Also funny how you keep trying to push this "certainty" argument when you have been going of how "certain" you are that ZFR is scum for days.

Give it a rest...I've explained my read multiple times...

We were up 3-0...
I was looking for one of two things...
1) A mostly uncontested vote for ZFR where no one really argues about him too much. Pretty sure sign he's scum.
2) People coming out of the woodwork to make sure he doesn't get elected, because fascists can't let it get to 4-0.

I got #2. And Scene, you were the one starting it with Brasas by your side.
Dedo became scum mostly by association because after you were done with ZFR, you came after me to attempt to push Dedo as a choice.

Here's the funny thing, I may have implied otherwise, but I wasn't completely sure Dedo was scum. There was the possibility you were using him as the best path to get Brasas as president since our choices would be limited to Adalia and Brasas. And also that you would have rather contested Dedo than ZFR or me because of our contributions to the game.

But when Dedo protects you claiming 3F and then declares Brasas as innocent, he gave away his wiggle room.

You keep yelling about "certainty" but what is ever certain for town in any of these games...but when a see something that waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck, I'm calling it a duck.

And all your crying trying to create more doubt, makes you look more guilty every time, because that's what scum do, create doubt, and very often using poor arguments such as straw-manning me as being 100% certain. My read can never be 100% certain, but it sure looks really good right now...

Let's worry about that if we get there.

But yeah, there are many little things that I found odd about him. His constant referral to the strategy guide (and Brasas's subtle "if you're checking strategy guides, I'm reading you as slight town lean" #184) yet despite all that "guiding" he offered very little reads or analysis, except his one "let's-quickly-get-back-to-me" strategy.

And when confronted with that he suddenly offers a weak "manipulating votes" read against Brasas. "Hey, look at me. I think Brasas is bad. I'm not his friend at all, no Sir."

And any questions or probing in greek's direction so quickly get dismissed as FUD by Brasas. heh.

Oh rly? Zfr and you put too much effort into building scenarios where I could be Hitler but I don't know if anyone else would agree with this line of play. If no one else is confirmed liberal and a 3rd fascist policy passes, what will liberals do, pick a random chancellor and pray? As I said before, if things don't go well, you should start thinking who will be chancellor after a me-Lift government.

And the scenario where brasas as a fascist passes a 4th L to mudfy the waters, the strategy guide says it isn't a very good idea especially since the score will be 4-1.

And me trusting brasas after he passes me L has better reasons than you and Zfr trusting each other. You still haven't explained this trust between you. I don't see any reasons to trust any of you yet.

He did. Multiple times. Including the post you just quoted.

As for myself; I've explained it multiple times too. If scene is fascist; he'd have "cleared" his buddy RW when in government together. The fact that that didn't happen means that *if* scene is fascist, then RW is pretty much liberal.
Of course I'm still keeping in mind the possibility that scene is just a liberal used by dedo+brasas, in which case RW could be the third hidden fascist.