I answered first to the first paragraph because you made it sound like I was blindly suggesting brasas and dedo again and again even if they discarded L. Apart from you, I could have brasas as chancellor, but who would be your chancellor? I don't trust anyone else enough. Anyway I insist that the safest pplay is for me and you only to be chancellors if a 3rd F passes. But if we are going to test someone else, it should be now.

I've repeated this many times, and I'm repeating again. All I did is say "tentative no until kusu explains why he picked me" when all of a sudden the attacks start (by scene) and this whole thing blew out of proportion. The posts are still there for all to see. At that point I thought I'd get more info from how people vote than I'd get from the government itself.



No, my friend. As you said the posts are still there for all to see. And the attacks and tunnelling started way before my "shitposting" as you put it.

@scene. I'm still waiting for your proof of the accusations you made against me (post 321 and 324). 4 weeks now. Are you going to ignore this forever?

@Brasas, those, and other baseless accusations before it, have been continuously made before what you call my "shitposting". At their culmination I just had enough and did what I did. But I explained that already. Just don't start saying that attacks against me were done after my "shitposting" - the posts order is out there for all to see: they were the cause, not the effect.

I have to protest. I make it a personal policy not to swear regardless of circumstances. And I'm talking in general life here; not mafia games. The worst I used were probably minced oaths like "heck" or "frickin".

RWarehall, let's just finish the game. You're probably just 1 government away from winning. And Brasas most probably knows it too.

Emmm, isn't trash talking allowed in the game? I didn't get offended when RW told me "screw you". I thought it was ok to swear, when I play with friends in real life, we swear at each other but we don't take anything serious. And what exactly is "shitposting"?

After reading the nightly debate.....

I'm beggining to wonder if Brasas-RW are team and RW's escalation of requesting a replacement here is an elabourate ploy for us to trust Brasas. Just a thought, might be way off the mark.

So the way I see it there are two possible fascist teams;

greek, dedo (and a selection of Brasas, Lift or scene).

or

RWarehall, ZFR and some others.

I didn't really consider RWarehall as a possible fascist as I think he has been talking a lot of sense, but the last few posts and requesting a replacement seem a bit overly frustrated to be coming from a liberal in the verge of winning the game..

That being said I still think greek is Hitler, which would rule out RWarehall as a fascist unless you want to ignore most of both of their posts.

Lift is probably the closest I have to someone I firmly believe is Liberal, but even then I think there's a good chance he could be a fascist alongside greek's Hitler.

So really the next government should tell us everything, either Lift is liberal (and hopefully Brasas or whoever he chooses too) and we win, or he's not and I wouldn't vote yes to any government containing greek or Lift again. Which basically means we have to start the game again from scratch with the worry of electing Hitler because we were too short sighted to think about the end game (unless that's exactly what greek has been doing all along) during the early governments.

I will point out for everyone the bolded above, which I was replying to. Also in context my post to RW is the opposite of a personal attack. IF he is Liberal I will talk to him after the game, otherwise I am dismissing his reply as scum AtE. And I will refrain from replying to him directly in the off chance that I actually offended him.

I don't want to rehash the whole thing, and it's been so long ago I can't vouch for 100% accuracy, but I think you are confusing AFTER voting no to the government you were in, and AFTER your shitposting - very possibly I was not clear enough:
- I saw your no voting as NAI - I recall I evaluated each No vote in that gov thinking Fash might have used my default No as cover to rekect a Lib/Lib gov - but then it was all inconclusive to me
- You are of course right you were attacked for it, but not by me - and I think Scene was really the only one really keeping at it / at you
- What I had on you were the small grammatical / word choice "pings"
- When I found the timing opportune, I jumped in and pushed on those (I was more focused than Scene I think) and accused you of being scum more and more intensely - you can call those baseless accusations. I dispute they are baseless, but of course they were not proof
- I only made up my mind on you when you "shitposted" as I simply do not judge you as doing that if you are town - could be I am overestimating you, call that tunneling if you want
- from then on, I reevaluated the game state, and the suspicion on the kusu / ZFR gov and your reaction to it leading to suspect that kusu might be H grew from that
- further, I think selecting dedo, in case by miracle this gov passes is perfect for Fascist (even if Hitler) team - the opposite of what he said that it's a thoughtless choice. Dispute with Dedo is the perfect way to also get at me - and I do believe the F team needs to create a lot more doubt and FUD about the greek/lift/scene/me/dedo grouping which has been getting its way up to now

The way I used it might be somewhat idiosyncratic but basically when you don't give a shit about what you are posting.
What ZFR did was shitposting regardless - even if town he should have given a shit about naming others like that, and of course as scum he was basically giving up and stepping out of the magic circle.

RW has not used the term like this, I think he has been using it more as synonym of bullshitting? Which I guess might be the actual native speaker correct usage... I don't know. I tried to stick to my meaning.

Finally has some time to decently read and write response

First of all, I'm surprised to see how much of discussion raised up by me nominating dedo. But it proves in a game about manipulation and finding the manipulator such as this, even a little less-thoughtful words can give big impact.

Now, I'm pretty much confused how come you guys have theory about which group is fascist-hitler. All I see is muddy water.

But let's talk about me being a possibly Hitler first. If I am, I must be a stupid one because everyone and their dogs are suspicious to me. I believe Hitler is a better player that's hiding well.

Now about fascist. After all this commotion, I am cautious to anyone who wants to be elected or if anyone seems to be forceful about wanting the game goes his way, that's an alarming sign for me. RW kinda gives this vibe.

I state earlier about ZFR being clean in my book. I'll tell you why now. ZFR I know is a very logical person. When the game started I get a hunch that he is not "the ZFR" I know as he gave me wrong kind of impression. After a while, lots of his posts starts to feel like "the real ZFR". And then when dedo was elected but policy hadn't been passed, ZFR post "Hey dedo, if you draw 2L, gives your Chancellor 2L". That is a small thought from him. But given our lead 3-0 L, I believe no sane fascist will tell dedo to do that. Telling dedo "that advice" shows ZFR wants liberals to win. Which is why he is clear in my book

Now my thought about scene. You are either a great Liberal, or an even greater Fascist / Hitler. You feels very liberal to me, but somehow you don't feel "complete". It's like in your post you don't tell all the story, there are somethings not told. Perhaps you just don't think it's important enough to write. Or perhaps that's a way to manipulate opinion. Either way, you are gooood

Brasas. He is an interesting fellow. I find his thought and mine are not on same side, but I can feel he's sincere and being true to us. I think he is a liberal and I'm OK to vote for his government. But of course it will have to adjust to our strategy at the time

Lift, I find you to be most interesting of all. In a DnD alignment, you are neutral-neutral. I can't feel anything at all from you. No sign of eager liberal or manipulative fascist.

Sorry I left my vote till last. Just wanted to make sure my yes vote won't actually pass this government.

I am not sure if we can continue the game after this post. RW wanting to resign from the game is a serious issue and I see your post as an off-topic off-game I don't know how to call it, something that you would post from outside the game and I take everything you said in this post as the truth This wasn't a moment to play games so if you were playing the game with this post you should say it so that we can disregard it. If your post was true the phrase "You're probably just 1 government away from winning" tells us that you are not liberal and you are not sure if RW is liberal. The conclusion is that you are Hitler. Maybe you slipped, maybe you gave this info on purpose, in any case clear this situation and if we have to stop the game, so be it, I don't mind.

Right I went over this a week or so and lost my reply. It's partly redundant since you've acted more suspiciously since seemingly forming an aliance with RWarehall and Adalia where you all raised suspicions on every player except for each other and all voting for a ZFR presidency and that never stopped. You all teamed up against Brasas before his presidency. The latest is accusations against Greek and Lift before and suspicions of Greek after the result so much so that it's been claimed by at least one of you that he should never be in government. Regardless of how legitimate criticisms are or are not, It reeks of team playing.

But going back......

You said you were suspicious of Scene twice and Greek once I think. Once because I was suspicious of your suspicious decision to reject Chancellorship and once before that. It's less than I thought and it wasn't my key issue with you. That would be your rejection of Chancellorship and refraining from discussing investigation tactics. My reaction back then as a newbie was that someone being suspicious of me was a fascist ploy to pick off liberals, which could be true but not necessarily. That part alone was an overreaction. The reaction to your chancelloship nomination and hesitency to discuss investigations wasn't though and pressing yourself and the relationship with RWarehall has born fruit and is telling. I think RWarehall is playing a role of the fascist who's quiting because he's lost to distract from the fact he knows he has a well placed Hitler. Whether it's The Greek or Brasas I am unsure which, but perhaps both could be Scum, I definitely think there's a good chance it's one of you. Everyone assumes RWarehall quit because he's lost and trust the last 2 players he attacked in Brasas and Greek.

That's my current RWarehall read, I don't for a minute think he's actually got upset over a game.

Your post is irrelevant to my point. My question is whether that post by Zfr was part of the game because it shouldn't be at that moment (if it was, I see it as a jerk move to try to make game while talking about RW resigning) and it sounded like a serious post from outside the game. If it wasn't, he should clarify because he gave info that ruins the game. Doesn't anyone else see that?

What? I'm liberal and I'm almost sure RW is liberal too.

EDIT to above: how on earth does my post "tell us I'm not liberal"? Are you just randomly throwing stuff at me now?


Dude, can you or can you not answer my question? You said "Accuses likely Liberals of being Fascist". Do you or do you not have proof of that? Yes or no?

"You said you were suspicious of Scene twice and Greek once I think." You think? You make a direct accusation against me and the best you come up with is that "you think". Show me the post or it didn't happen.

Can you now at least admit your accusation was baseless?

And can't you then see your circular reasoning? Back then I wasn't "teamed" with RW. I wasn't "against" Brasas. Brasas wasn't proved; if anything his "default NO" was suspicious. But based on that single baseless accusation you have built a whole vicious circle.

Uhm. Why not? All ZFR said that RW shouldn't quit and I agree with that. The rest is pure logic. If RW is liberal (which ZFR seems to assume), he might be 1 government away from winning. We need just 1L after all. The fascists are more than one government away from winning. They need at least a second one. And IF RW is liberal and Brasas is fascist, Brasas would know that RW is liberal too.

Of course ZFR could write such a sentence as Fascist too, to appear like he was not sure of who is what. In any case this sentence on it's own is NAI and I don't see anything outside the game here.

@RW: really, stop sulking and finish the game. I mean, you do insult players yourself. You even used the asshole word on Brasas. But when he realiates in kind (more precisely, saying: 'Hey, maybe that's an act and you are NOT an asshole after all'), you rage-quit. Isn't that a bit of a double-standard?
So, if you are a liberal, come back and help us finish this game. If you are, however, just a fascist who wants to quit because he's losing, sure thing. Quit. But that is really bad sportsmanship!